Time off for Christmas shopping in public service.

Complainer said:
There was an informal arrangement for a half-day Xmas shopping leave in my last private sector employer, but there is no such arrangement in my current public sector employer.
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Does that mean it is not a formal arrangement or that you don't get one?

I don't see the problem with people taking an hour or two out during the day to do things like go to the bank, dentist, doctor etc but getting paid to do your shopping... I've never heard of such a thing in SME land.
 
Purple said:
I don't see the problem with people taking an hour or two out during the day to do things like go to the bank, dentist, doctor etc but getting paid to do your shopping... I've never heard of such a thing in SME land.
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Do you really think dentists are that busy in December?
 
I think this argument is very skewed to the woe is me. Those same school leavers who decided to go into jobs and "make hay while the sun shone" and pay related taxes while doing so are now finding it hard to even claim benefits because some of them were self employed or apprentices .

These little concessions was always noted as a "joke" - why do you see so many gorgeous women at the Galway races - because the nurses of the city get time off to attend!

As a civil service employee i think you are just as guilty of honing in on one aspect and not the full picture. Many did not get the large bonuses (i certainly was not entitled to them and had to pursue night courses and extra unpaid hours average 50pw to excel in my job) but of course guys at the top did - just as CC . Any bonus i have ever gotten has been under 1k and has had to be put into my pension (defined contribution) to avoid tax and seeit go that bit further.... just a little of the other side for you. And partnership never touched us.
 
Complainer said:
There was an informal arrangement for a half-day Xmas shopping leave in my last private sector employer, but there is no such arrangement in my current public sector employer.
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Let me guess, your last private sector employers drank champagne all day too but your current public sector employer won't give you a biro unless there is a court order?
 
Sunny said:
Just throwing it out there!
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It has to be considered. I certainly don't relish the prospect of a pay cut, but given the overall economic picture there's a strong argument for it.

That said, I would not think it fair to extend cuts to the lowest paid - as well as their least being able to afford it, that (possibly) would raise the prospect of strikes, service withdrawal, etc. Any pay cuts would have to be (in my personal opinion) targetted on middle to high-ranking civil and public servants.

From discussions with colleagues I'd agree that not only is there a broad expectation that the pay deal terms will have to go, but there's a high level of belief that it's necessary. There's definitely no sabre-rattling from my colleagues, nor - unusually - from most of the public sector unions, just mutters about protecting the lowest paid.
 
Dreamerb said:
That said, I would not think it fair to extend cuts to the lowest paid - as well as their least being able to afford it, that (possibly) would raise the prospect of strikes, service withdrawal, etc.
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i agree that folks who work on the ground on low levels of pay- under 30k should not have to suffer (but not receive increases in times of zero positive inflation)) but from now on i do not want to see the country held to ransom by civil servants because they think the public sector are getting better paid.
 
Private sector, even?

To be fair, private sector pay in comparable jobs had, prior to benchmarking, substantially outdistanced public sector pay. To my own knowledge, in the late 90s and to about 2003-ish, a lot of civil servants - at all levels - were leaving to take up other jobs, frequently at very much higher salaries (of four people I knew well enough to know of details, I think all but one had salary increases of over 50%). I think this, on a macro scale, was part of the reason for the benchmarking exercise.

Nor do I see any time lately that civil servants have held the country to ransom, though a number of other public sector area have had strikes.

A real problem with the benchmarking model is that while benchmarking followed certain private sector salaries on the way up, there is insufficient recognition of the risk premium in the private sector, and no real mechanism for public sector salaries to follow those same private sector salaries back down.
 



Good posts. I don't think many people would disagree with you.
 


Agreed, the pay deal is a dead as a 100% mortgage. Pay cuts - well now that a different kettle of fish but it should be on the table.

I moved from the private to the public sector 18 months ago as both my spouse and I worked for the same employer - I had the foresight to see what was coming down the track and started looking to spread our risk.

I took a pay cut in real terms but am still happy with the relative security (contract employee, not permanent).

Without doubt the public service needs to be rationalised to some degree and loads of quangos axed, but the underlying reality is that taxes will need to rise. Garret Fitzgerald was on newstalk the other evening saying much the same thing. For a number of years now we've been paying taxes at similar levels to the US and enjoying service levels closer to the European model. All fuelled by a massive tax take from the construction boom.

You can rattle on about distractions like half day shopping all you like (never heard of it myself) but the country is running a budget deficit of about 10% which is well outside the EU limits and obviously unsustainable. Public sector reform ain't gonna fix that unless you start slashing important services like hospitals, schools, police etc. Cutback certainly, reform certainly but there's a limit to what can be achieved without unacceptable cuts in services.

With the credit crunch and the Iceland situation still affecting the availability of credit, the big question is how long can the government borrow to continue financing that deficit. The national debt may be small enough in relative terms but the ability to continue to borrow and keep the current Keynesian policies in place is not unlimited IMO.

I can't see how we can avoid an Income tax rise ( stealth taxes are more likely to depress consumption and inherently inequitable IMO). That special levy ain't gonna cut it as it stands. The only question now is whether the gov have the cojones.

Now that would be real leadership - prospects of it happening with local elections on the card.... I'd vote for it but I doubt many others would.
 
Cant believe people are giving out about civil servents getting a half day leave for shopping. Bloody hell. What about all the private sector employees who get xmas bonuses or if they dont get bonuses what about the xmas party/drinks that you get. Civil Servents dont get any of that. In fact we are not allowed except any xmas gifts from members of the public or those in business. What about the numbers of days off a lot of private sector employees will get off for xmas? I finish work at 3.30 on Xmas Eve and I am back in work on Monday 29th at 8am. Just throwing that out there in case people think that civil servents get the whole of xmas off.
 
?
This rule has always been in the MNC that i work for and also we only get public holidays off the rest are what we take from our own balances. the misconception of Christmas bonuses has been covered already here.
 
pennypitstop said:
?
This rule has always been in the MNC that i work for and also we only get public holidays off the rest are what we take from our own balances. the misconception of Christmas bonuses has been covered already here.
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What about xmas drinks or parties?
 
the company contributes to half the cost of the Christmas party the rest we pay to a social club every paycheck - so it ain't free by any stretch, however they do contribute. its a half day's wages? probably not.
 
gazzer said:
What about xmas drinks or parties?
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This has come up before too. I don't get them and never have - seemingly many others are in the same position.

I finish work at 3.30 on Xmas Eve and I am back in work on Monday 29th at 8am.
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What kind of hours/days do you think all private sector retail and hospitality staff have to work?
 
gazzer said:
I finish work at 3.30 on Xmas Eve and I am back in work on Monday 29th at 8am. Just throwing that out there in case people think that civil servents get the whole of xmas off.
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My sister works in the Department of Enterprise & Employment and she is not expected in work on Monday 29th. I think she referred to it as a 'grace' day.

I'm just throwing it out there in case people think that all civil servants will be at their desks, effortlessly adapting to the new Smart Economy.

I work for a publicly quoted company and any time I take over Christmas, over and above Bank/Public holidays, comes out of my annual leave entitlement. 'Grace' days / Christmas bonuses / complimentary drinks don't exist where I work.
 
TarfHead said:
My sister works in the Department of Enterprise & Employment and she is not expected in work on Monday 29th. I think she referred to it as a 'grace' day.
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I think it more likely that she referred to it as a privilege day. Civil servants are allowed one at Christmas and another at Easter -- a day's leave in addition to the public holidays. It must be taken at a time close to the holiday, but no particular date is prescribed.

Think of them as part of the annual leave entitlement.
 
How many days holidays do you have a year? How many hours a week do you work? Do you get paid sick leave?
 
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