While any education on company balance sheets and proper estimation of share values has to be good
One of them was told that TICN were using the "same system that the very successful Warren Buffet" of Berkshire Hathaway uses - I don't think so - Buffet is very conservative, invests for the very longterm, and only invests in businesses he understands - he does NOT mess about with covered calls, put options, short term trading and other whizzy stuff.
TICN seems to view covered calls as a really easy way of making money with virtually no risk. I formed the opinion that they really don't understand the full implications of what they are doing.
I think that they are just misinformed and are spreading this misinformation. I checked out the discussion forums on their website and it was pretty dangerous stuff. I appreciate that the nature of a discussion forum is that anyone can post anything. But there was some guy posting what I considered to be rubbish in a very authoritative manner and no one was challenging or correcting him. Others seemed to regard him as inspired. At least on Askaboutmoney, if I post rubbish in an authorative manner, it will be challenged very very quickly.
Just have this feeling that while many in it may be well-intentioned enthusiastic amateurs, there are some "inspirational" speakers from UK or US, and it smacks a bit of AmWay + HerbalLife with a bit of old time religion...
Some of their strategies seem to work - as long as the underlying shares keep rising - I don't really think those involved have had the chastising and educating experience I've had of seeing my shares fall every damm day for a year.
I am certainly uneasy, TICN take a shareholding in every club (and don't contribute) which is against stock exchange share club guidelines. I attended a hard sell information evening where they couldn't even tell people what the tax implications are for losses/gains, even though there is a publication from the Irish Stock Exchange!
The supposed expert hadn't a clue and the founder has no background in investments. I strongly advised my wife and her friend to steer well clear.
I thought the idea of taking a 5% equity stake in a club was interesting. There's probably some signaling going on there. I wondered why not just charge an annual membership fee.
The approach does seem to have a flavor of value investing, but that's about it
I too get nervous when I hear of novice investors learning about options. Covered calls aren't a bad way to get income. I just think personally it's best to learn about stocks before learning about derivatives.
The idea of a covered call is strange - why would you see a call option if you know that the stock is going to decrease in value? Market sentiment may well send the stock going south well over the expiration date !( 3 weeks).
In my experience buy and sell the stock , use the Stochastic indicators as well as Bollinger bands,
Stock Market is very based on market sentiment - if a company is posting great profits and has great management may not mean that the stock is worth a buy due to negative market sentiment
You're studying quantitative finance and yet it seems you're a believer in technical analysis? Do TICN encourage the use of charting? Of all the approaches to investing, most forms of technical analysis have been well and truely debunked. Not only in academic studies but the likes of Buffet, for example, claims he realized technical analysis doesn't work when he turned the charts upside down and got the same answer.You use the Bollinger bands (white), moving averages (red and yellow) and trendlines (white).
Watch the price as it moves off the moving averages and outside the Bollinger bands. If it is close to the resistance of the channel this is even better. When it gets outside the Bollinger band it is usually on a high volatility day, this means you will get more for the call premium. Here is where you sell the call.
Next you wait for it to pull back to the moving averages or the bottom of the channel, these often act as support, when it does find this support (i.e. the price stops falling and moves sideways or upwards) it is time to buy back the call. Again if it is a sideways day, volatility will be low and the premium you must pay back is deflated.
So looking at where it is now, we see a large gap up from the support of the channel, any sort of follow through in the next couple of days will push the price outside the Bollinger band, this is when we would sell the call. Unfortunately we are fairly far from the next out of the money strike price ($22.50) so the premium may not be large enough to trade this profitably.
The club co-ordinator is like a TICN representative as such - attends your club mtgs & gives guidance - answers questions on diff trading strategies etc. A god club co-ordinator is invaluable to any club. He takes a cut of the profits at the end of the 5 yrs (or sooner if the club ceases)What does the club coordinator do? I thought that the idea of such a club was that decisions were made collectively - ideally unanimously but I guess that's not always possible once there is more than a single person invoved...
You're studying quantitative finance and yet it seems you're a believer in technical analysis? Do TICN encourage the use of charting? Of all the approaches to investing, most forms of technical analysis have been well and truely debunked. Not only in academic studies but the likes of Buffet, for example, claims he realized technical analysis doesn't work when he turned the charts upside down and got the same answer.
You invite "questions about TICN or about my experiences" but say that you have no involvement with TICN. Can you clarify what you mean please because this sounds a bit contradictory to me.If anybody has any other questions about TICN or about my experiences, etc. feel free to ask.
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I have no interest in nor am I affiliated with TICN in any way. I neither gain nor lose anything from TICN's success or failure.
You invite "questions about TICN or about my experiences" but say that you have no involvement with TICN. Can you clarify what you mean please because this sounds a bit contradictory to me.
I attended an introductory talk by TICN, and I can’t see how you can make money out of it. The idea is that you sjoin an investment club; all club members attend a training course (cost about 1000 euro) and then subscribe 100 euro per month to the club to buy shares. The club exists for 5 years and then winds up, distributing its assets to the members. There is a standing charge of 150 euro per month to the club for the analysis sheets and services from Valueline, the trader software, newsletter, etc. TICN also takes 5% of the shareholding in the club financed by the other club members, i.e. in effect a charge of 5% on your monthly subscription. So how can you make money? If TICN takes 5% of the subs and there is also a standing charge a club of 10 people would need its shares to grow at about 7% p.a. just to break even on the subscriptions / standing charge. To cover the cost of the training course you would need to gain even more. Increasing the number of club members will not offset the subscription / standing charge if your gains on the investments are low. A club with the max of 20 members would still need their shares to gain at least 5% p.a. to break even on subscriptions / standing charge. The TICN strategy includes the selling of options (i.e. covered calls) on the shares to gain a ‘rent’. So, you need both relatively high gains on the stocks and profitable option selling to make a profit. To be fair to TICN they did not hide these charges at the presentation I attended, but only one member of the audience picked up on this point, which would make me question the financial sophistication on the other potential club members. If people are not aware of the impact of costs on investment returns could you really trust them to select profitable shares? Anyone have any other experience / observations?
Why pay anybody (other than a stockbroker and the taxman) when you can manage your own investment club and access all of the relevant resources for free? Neither TICN nor any other individual/organisation has exclusive access to information on stock market investing no matter what might be claimed or implied.
Why not just buy the ISEQ ETF - simple, effective, with stock specific risks nullified?
Be that as it may the Efficient Market Hypothesis would suggest that this in no way ensures that they are better able to decide when to buy low and sell high that anybody else.TICN do have exclusive access to their system, to the webshops, to the 4x4 companies that they post on their website, to TICN clubs and to the options trade finders.
They also pay for access to Valueline.
Be that as it may the Efficient Market Hypothesis would suggest that this in no way ensures that they are better able to decide when to buy low and sell high that anybody else.
I did the TICN investment course last year - great course but I was not too enthused about joining a club and I am glad that I did not. There are a lot of stocks that TICN do not cover because theey are not "4X4" stocks!!! which to me is quite conservative. Another point being missed here is no matter what stock anyone has picked recently, would have suffered due to Bernake's (Federal Reserve) chairman reports about inflation rates hence since about May the Market has been extremely Bearish - okay so you can buy Put Options or sell short (which TICN do not favour yet are less expensive brokerage fees - but really was based on market sentiment and I believe not everybody could have guessed that that would happen. Last October to May I found Bullish , market since May is bearish, due to interest rate increases seem to be levelling off for now(CPI data seems to show this too) might start a Bullish run again.
TICN data about clubs is very suspect .... Great course - but steer clear of clubs - the blind leading the blind - in my opinion . Of course Im no expert but when it comes to your hard earned money - do your own research, know the market sentiment, when to buy and when to sell ( online) and take you profits periodically ... that has been my experience....
Are you saying that you are a member of an investment club that was set up under the auspices or guidance of TICN? If this is the case then surely you do have some vested interest since the performace of your investments presumably depends to some extent on TICN?By experiences I mean taking the MMCP and being in an active club.
TICN run an MMCP Seminar (Making Money is Childs Play).
This is intense & runs on a Fri eve, all day Saturday & all day Sunday.
Is there anyone who has done the course can give a verdict on the MMCP course in terms of...
- Worthwhile
- Very beneficial
- Outstanding
- Waste of Time (& money)
- "Went straight over my head"
Are you saying that you are a member of an investment club that was set up under the auspices or guidance of TICN? If this is the case then surely you do have some vested interest since the performace of your investments presumably depends to some extent on TICN?
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