The safety of the new vaccine

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Our allocation is dependent on our population and specifically our population of vulnerable, so because we have a generally younger age profile than the EU we get even less per capita than say Germany.
 
Tony Blair with the backing of Professor Salisbury are advocating that people only get one jab initially, as its thought that the vaccinated person will be about 52% immune. Its argued that most of the immunity is gotten from the first dose, and by only giving one would increase people getting well quicker?
I'm not sure if this would be allowed, doubt Pfizer/BioNTech would we willing to resubmit an application, given that they are now working on the full licence application which will probably be done over the next 6 months and this licence will be huge in comparison to the emergency use .
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
Tony Blair with the backing of Professor Salisbury are advocating that people only get one jab initially, as its thought that the vaccinated person will be about 52% immune. Its argued that most of the immunity is gotten from the first dose, and by only giving one would increase people getting well quicker?
I'm not sure if this would be allowed, doubt Pfizer/BioNTech would we willing to resubmit an application, given that they are now working on the full licence application which will probably be done over the next 6 months and this licence will be huge in comparison to the emergency use .
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Asked my wife about this and she agrees fully saying it would vaccinate a lot more more quickly and get to herd immunity quicker, and the second dose only gives another 40% immunity.
She said that most other vaccines developed would not be anywhere near 52% and they are used everyday.
She went to to say that it wouldn't be an issue for the present emergency licence and will probably be included in the main licence application anyway.
Thought she'd be against it.
 
odyssey06 said:
I am aware the Prof, but challenge trials haven't even started yet on any covid vaccine (see below), so I think there is some misunderstanding here.
No vaccinated person in a trial as directly exposed to the virus.
The vaccinated and placebo groups were selected at random, to try to match the groups in terms of their likely exposure to the virus.
Initial focus was on how many in each group was infected.
I think there are follow-up studies to see if there are less cases in the close contacts of vaccinated versus the placebo group, but no firm results yet, and the nature of such a study may make direct comparisons difficult - especially with the low number of infected in the vaccinated group.

www.biopharma-reporter.com

UK seeks to 'accelerate and optimize' clinical development of pandemic vaccines

More than 360,000 people have signed up to the UK’s registry of people interested in participating in vaccine trials: the world’s first database of its kind. The UK is also exploring other measures – such as human challenge trials - to boost clinical development of vaccines.
www.biopharma-reporter.com www.biopharma-reporter.com
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Some challenge trials were and are included in the clinical trials, but under very strict rules and volunteers are normally handpicked and in sterile locations.
I asked herself and she said as part of data collection from the vaccine roll-out these trials will be conducted extensively.
And I asked if a vaccinated person can pass on the virus she, said "if that happens the vaccine isn't working" but she did say its possible but very very rare, but also said that not enough is known yet.
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
Some challenge trials were and are included in the clinical trials, but under very strict rules and volunteers are normally handpicked and in sterile locations.
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I really need to see a source for that... have searched online several times for challenge trial data and drawn a blank.

None of the published data for Oxford, Moderna, Pfizer shows challenge trial results.

The information available online suggests what you have outlined above is planned in the new year in UK but hasnt even started yet...
Unless it has been done on the QT / internal basis.
 
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odyssey06 said:
I really need to see a source for that... have searched online several times for challenge trial data and drawn a blank.

None of the published data for Oxford, Moderna, Pfizer shows challenge trial results.

The information available online suggests what you have outlined above is planned in the new year in UK but hasnt even started yet...
Unless it has been done on the QT / internal basis.
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It is part of the process of the clinical trails, as for providing proof I can't, my wife said that all vaccines she has been involved with carry out these types of trials.
Now she said those vaccines are different for example prenvar which was initially produced for children who were dying of pneumonia due to a virus.

Additionally it would be very rare for every detail of clinical trials and all the details of multiple processes to be published online.
Competitive advantage is still very much part of the game here.
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
It is part of the process of the clinical trails, as for providing proof I can't, my wife said that all vaccines she has been involved with carry out these types of trials.
Now she said those vaccines are different for example prenvar which was initially produced for children who were dying of pneumonia due to a virus.

Additionally it would be very rare for every detail of clinical trials and all the details of multiple processes to be published online.
Competitive advantage is still very much part of the game here.
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It hasnt been part of the process of any of the covid vaccines in EU / US approval process.
You would need regulatory approval to ensure such trials conducted in ethical manner.

It has happened with other respiratory viruses vaccine development.
But that doesnt mean it is a standard feature.

If the data hasnt been published and to the standard regulators would require I would not afford it any weight.

www.google.com

UK push to 'give people Covid' for vaccine trial - BBC News

Volunteers will be deliberately exposed to the virus in trials due to start in January.
www.google.com www.google.com
 
OK maybe what has been done during the clinical trails wasn't a challenge trial like the ones linked above.
But how do the know that the vaccine is effective .
I notice also of these are not Pfizer run trials, and are in fact nothing to do with the clinical trails that Pfizer conducted.
I can only ask what she is capable of telling me, and since she's being doing this a long time professionally I simply passed on what she said.
I ve tried to be open and honest here.....but it appears that's not enough
 
Paul O Mahoney said:
OK maybe what has been done during the clinical trails wasn't a challenge trial like the ones linked above.
But how do the know that the vaccine is effective .
I notice also of these are not Pfizer run trials, and are in fact nothing to do with the clinical trails that Pfizer conducted.
I can only ask what she is capable of telling me, and since she's being doing this a long time professionally I simply passed on what she said.
I ve tried to be open and honest here.....but it appears that's not enough
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Appreciate the input from that angle but might be better until the info is a bit more mature if you know what I mean.
 
odyssey06 said:
Appreciate the input from that angle but might be better until the info is a bit more mature if you know what I mean.
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I asked again they don't do human challenge trials as described they do cohort trials as part of the clinical trails as they feel they are more appropriate for other reasons.

She also said that clinical trials of larger populations have in the past rendered human challenge trials unnecessary as they added nothing to the development or betterment of a vaccine, in their experience.
And its usually academics that find these useful, for a lot of reasons.
 
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paul o mahoney "Tony Blair with the backing of Professor Salisbury are advocating that people only get one jab initially, as its thought that the vaccinated person will be about 52% immune. Its argued that most of the immunity is gotten from the first dose, and by only giving one would increase people getting well quicker? "thanks was about to ask this .
question if we go that route could the virus become immune like some antibiotics are becoming useless (from people not taking full dose and virus adapting)?
 
johnwilliams said:
paul o mahoney "Tony Blair with the backing of Professor Salisbury are advocating that people only get one jab initially, as its thought that the vaccinated person will be about 52% immune. Its argued that most of the immunity is gotten from the first dose, and by only giving one would increase people getting well quicker? "thanks was about to ask this .
question if we go that route could the virus become immune like some antibiotics are becoming useless (from people not taking full dose and virus adapting)?
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I think the thinking around this is that the immunity rate would be over 50% of a greater proportion of the population with limited resources, then double doses would be rolled out in time......but vastly more people would be better off in fighting the virus.......and it does make sense.

Wonder if its acceptable
 
if someone is seriously ill with covid in icu gets vaccine this instant ,how long before we see this patient start to recover from covid?
 
johnwilliams said:
if someone is seriously ill with covid in icu gets vaccine this instant ,how long before we see this patient start to recover from covid?
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A vaccine doesn't cure someone who already has it. That's not how vaccines work.
And, you can't actually get the vaccine if you've currently got it.
 
johnwilliams said:
if someone is seriously ill with covid in icu gets vaccine this instant ,how long before we see this patient start to recover from covid?
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I think Astrazeneca has developed an effective antibody drug and that is hoped to help, of course Regeneron has another but its expensive and we know it " cured " Trump in record time but seems to have fallen away from the global gaze recently.
 
If vaccines are 90% effective, that suggests that there is a 10% chance that a person who is vaccinated might still pick up the virus?
 
Laramie said:
If vaccines are 90% effective, that suggests that there is a 10% chance that a person who is vaccinated might still pick up the virus?
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The effectivess was measured at preventing symptoms.
Unclear how many people still picked up the virus and were potentially contagious for a period without any symptoms.
 
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