The safety of the new vaccine

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Pfizer have also bought a Novartis plant in Germany for the production of the vaccine.

I’m not sure if the production from this plant is included in their calculations, of enough vaccine for 8% of world’s population by by end of 2021.
I thought it was Biontech who bought that plant to make about 500m doses.
My wife is quality head for all biotechnology plants in Europe and she's not involved in this plant.
Pfizer doesn't own Biontech this is only a partnership, Biontech wanted there own plant for decades now they have.
 
One thing to remember about the vaccine whoever the manufacturer is that there is a waiting period for it to give you protection against Covid.
You still have to mind yourself for a certain period.
 
One thing to remember about the vaccine whoever the manufacturer is that there is a waiting period for it to give you protection against Covid.
You still have to mind yourself for a certain period.
Agreed,
And I still think that the good habits of cleaning hands and mask wearing will be part of our lives for a long time.
The vaccine(s) initially aren't the panacea we would like to have, and when international travel reopens Ill be wearing a mask .

This virus will continue to mutate and as we know vaccines do take time to change.
 
The more I think about the Pfizer vaccine the more sceptical I get.
It a nutshell, if you contract Covid-19, it’ll make it asymptomatic. That’s it. Not that that in itself is a bad thing. You won’t be sick and you won’t die from Covid. However, you won’t have antibodies (AFAIK) and it won’t prevent you from passing on the virus.
This last point is worth considering. It’ll be very difficult to achieve herd immunity with the Pfizer vaccine.

Do we know for sure that it makes you asymptomatic? Or are you raising it as a concern as we don't know for sure if it prevents infection?
If the former, it may still have role in protecting the most vulnerable, but doesn't seem suitable for potential spreaders.

I found this article which explains how the vaccines are good at protecting the lungs, but that it's an open question how quickly they repulse infection in the nose:
Here’s Why Vaccinated People Still Need to Wear a Mask - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
 
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Sorry, I should clarify my point:
It’s not so much that it makes you asymptomatic, but there appears to be no difference between someone that has contracted Covid and is asymptomatic and someone who has been Pfizer vaccinated and then exposed to the virus.

No difference in transmission, but difference in how severe the infection is.
That is one possibility for how the vaccine will take effect.

But do you have a study that clarifies that?
As I mentioned above, as far as i knew at the moment we don't know if it will prevent infection\transmission or not.
The pfizer study tracked illness not infection.
If you have a more up to date study please share.
 
...there appears to be no difference between someone that has contracted Covid and is asymptomatic and someone who has been Pfizer vaccinated and then exposed to the virus.

I think you might have misunderstood the reporting. There is currently no proof that the Pfizer vaccine prevents onward transmission - because they didn't specifically test for that yet. It would take a lot longer to test for that. But there is hope that it will reduce onward transmission
 
The more I think about the Pfizer vaccine the more sceptical I get.
It a nutshell, if you contract Covid-19, it’ll make it asymptomatic. That’s it. Not that that in itself is a bad thing. You won’t be sick and you won’t die from Covid. However, you won’t have antibodies (AFAIK) and it won’t prevent you from passing on the virus.

This last point is worth considering. It’ll be very difficult to achieve herd immunity with the Pfizer vaccine.
The TB vaccine (or inoculation?) prevents you (where effective) from getting TB and from passing it on. Hence TB is very rare and very difficult to contract. Herd immunity is very high.

There are many more vaccines in the pipeline. By this time next year I’d say we’ll have forgotten about the Pfizer vaccine.
You hold all the worries you want Dude because reading this you clearly have no idea what you are saying.

But carry on, the science disagrees with you and all the data is available for both Pfizer/ BioNTech and Moderna vaccines.

Ill ask you this how can a person who is vaccinated pass on an active virus?
Ill give you hint the vaccine renders the spike protein inoperable and therefore prevents the virus from attaching to your cells and preventing it from reproducing and ?????

Now explain, exactly with the appropriate science why you think why a vaccinated person will pass on the virus.

You've been trying this on for a while now and I ignored your obvious mistakes in everything you have contributed, but its time for you to explain why you hold your view.

And finally TB , Polio, or another vaccine is irrelevant as these vaccines are mRNa vaccines.
 
I think you might have misunderstood the reporting. There is currently no proof that the Pfizer vaccine prevents onward transmission - because they didn't specifically test for that yet. It would take a lot longer to test for that. But there is hope that it will reduce onward transmission
They are very sanguine on this given that the virus can't live without its spike protein that allows attachment to our cells.

And yes this will take time to confirm, but both mRna vaccines operate in exactly the same way.

Is this scenario plausible?
Would both Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech have issued licence applications for this if it didn't do what most vaccines do?
The flu vaccine doesn't prevent otherpeople from getting the flu but its rolled out in its billions every year.
 
It should be also said that no virus has ever been eliminated but its vaccines that have suppressed them, smallpox, tb, polio, measles, rubella, HIV, ebola etc are still around and someday they too might mutate and become an issue again.
Vaccines aren't static things they too mutate based on what needs to be fought.
 
The flu vaccine doesn't prevent otherpeople from getting the flu but its rolled out in its billions every year.

Can you clarify that ... Everything I have read suggests the flu vaccine does significantly reduce spread from a vaccinated person exposed to the virus (maybe because they are not hit with symptoms that trigger viral shedding)

If the vaccine protects the vaccinated person that is - not counting when the strain wasnt in the vaccine.
 
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Can you clarify that ... Everything I have read suggests the flu vaccine does significantly reduce spread from a vaccinated person exposed to the virus (maybe because they are not hit with symptoms that trigger viral shedding)

If the vaccine protects the vaccinated person that is - not counting when the strain wasnt in the vaccine.
I'll try, the flu like covid spreads by airborne droplets, if a vaccinated person is amongst a group of people, or the general population they are unlikely to be the cause of passing on the flu, however they don't/can't prevent others from contracting the flu either from other sources like the general public.

The primary function of the flu vaccine is to prevent those most vulnerable from getting it and dying from it , its not designed to pass on immunity.

However if a high enough percentage of the population has the flu vaccine the virus can't spread as easily as most of the potential hosts are vaccinated.

Does that make sense the virus is ever present any vaccine protects those vaccinated and those whos natural immune systems are strong enough to fend off the virus themselves also prevents a virus spreading.
 
Maybe this might be easier....
If you had 2 groups of 10 people one group had a person with covid with no symptoms the other with a vaccinated person, which group would be more likely to become infected?
I'm not certain but I thought read they actually did this in trials.
 
I'll try, the flu like covid spreads by airborne droplets, if a vaccinated person is amongst a group of people, or the general population they are unlikely to be the cause of passing on the flu, however they don't/can't prevent others from contracting the flu either from other sources like the general public.

The primary function of the flu vaccine is to prevent those most vulnerable from getting it and dying from it , its not designed to pass on immunity.

However if a high enough percentage of the population has the flu vaccine the virus can't spread as easily as most of the potential hosts are vaccinated.

Does that make sense the virus is ever present any vaccine protects those vaccinated and those whos natural immune systems are strong enough to fend off the virus themselves also prevents a virus spreading.

I think there is possible scenario where a vaccine can protect against illness in those who receive it by protecting the lungs.
So illness is protected against.
But there is possibility they may still be infectious through virus shedding in the nose - for a period.
So infection is not 100% prevented but may be limited by the head start given by the vaccine.
The head start to the lungs is bigger than the head start to nasal area.
That was outlined in the New York Times article I linked above, it explains it better.

This does not apply to nasal vaccines.
 
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Maybe this might be easier....
If you had 2 groups of 10 people one group had a person with covid with no symptoms the other with a vaccinated person, which group would be more likely to become infected?
I'm not certain but I thought read they actually did this in trials.

I havent seen any trials that looked at that scenario. Would be great if we had data on it but it sounds like a challenge trial and I dont think they have even started yet.

I dont think any trial data released yet looks at onward transmission, main focus was on illness prevention.
Some looked at infection prevention by checking for viral load in vaccinated subjects v non vaxxed.
 
I havent seen any trials that looked at that scenario. Would be great if we had data on it but it sounds like a challenge trial and I dont think they have even started yet.

I dont think any trial data released yet looks at onward transmission, main focus was on illness prevention.
Some looked at infection prevention by checking for viral load in vaccinated subjects v non vaxxed.
I honestly read it somewhere, it wouldn't be in brain otherwise, I can see in my mind the rooms in cartoon type, visualisation of the data type of presentation.
I simply cannot remember. I do recall though that these tests were carried out indoors obviously real life isn't indoors.
It'll come to me eventually where I read that.

On a another point, the CEO of Biontech was just on the BBC news saying that they have tested 20 variants already and isn't concerned on vaccine effectiveness.

However the BBC health reporter has said , again with graphs etc, that the new variant might defer the concept of "herd immunity " from July to next Autumn.....
 
I heard one expert on the radio during the week saying that there is no "live" Covid in the vaccine. Then yesterday on the Claire Byrne show another expert said that there was live Covid in the vaccine. Which is it?
 
I heard one expert on the radio during the week saying that there is no "live" Covid in the vaccine. Then yesterday on the Claire Byrne show another expert said that there was live Covid in the vaccine. Which is it?
The mRna vaccines only need the genetic sequence of covid to get your Rna to message your T cells, doesn't actually need any physical piece of the virus.
Others like Astrazeneca use dead pieces of the virus to get your T cells to trigger.
The latter is how all vaccines were made to date the former new technology.
 
I heard one expert on the radio during the week saying that there is no "live" Covid in the vaccine. Then yesterday on the Claire Byrne show another expert said that there was live Covid in the vaccine. Which is it?
Some vaccines not mRna use live attenuated virus or dead virus, the live attenuated types reduces the potency of the virus and your immune system generates an immune response.
Some flu vaccines are live attenuated but the jury is out on effectiveness being higher than other vaccines.
So some might have live and dead vaccines but I haven't heard of a live one yet
 
Does anyone know why Ireland is only getting a first delivery of 10,000 vaccines.

Can we not store anymore?

Did we under order?

We we only allocated this amount?

If we are getting delivery on the 26th why are we waiting to the end of the month before the roll out?
 
Does anyone know why Ireland is only getting a first delivery of 10,000 vaccines.

Can we not store anymore?

Did we under order?

We we only allocated this amount?

If we are getting delivery on the 26th why are we waiting to the end of the month before the roll out?
Its just the first batch from our allocation, the EU negotiated on the members behalf .

I think the plan is to get batches of 10,000 a week.

Roll out is starting next week with healthcare workers and care homes first on the list, then over 70's with underlying conditions.
 
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