"The Pyjama girls" .What did you think?(RTE Tues 13th March 2012)

http://www.rte.ie/player/#

Did you watch this programme last night.
Frightening look into the world of these kids.
I have varied views on it,for example the kids playing with the box outside the flat,was very funny and very innocent kid like,apart from the fact that one of them almost got knocked down!
The accent of the main girl was stunningly horrific!They even used sub titles at times..
The pure aggression and hate spewing from her was very difficult to see and hear,the way she viewed the girls on the other bus,who were doing her no harm whatsoever,was unbelievable!
Her use of language was like something I've have never heard from a persons mouth.
Her complete lack of respect for her Nanny was scary.
Yet...on the other hand..
She seemed so capable of caring, for example her little sister,the way she spoke about her and thinking some day she will care for her .
The upbringing she had with a drugged mother,she has been suspended from school and got No grades on her reports,yet did well in first year.
She is also capable of keeping a friend and knows how to dance and she even found some things funny in all of this.
What is the future for her ?
To sum up my views on this programme,it was very scary and very sad.

nothing new in it I'm afraid that I did'nt already know or suspect.
The way they discussed the friend who was going to have child at 17 (nearly 18) was insightful...the boyfriend wanted to have 1 for a while!!! The group of girls discussing it as though the baby was an acessory....and sure why not, as the taxpayer will have to step in and pay for all the associated costs!!! It's 1 way of getting a house so as to escape living with parents/grandparents

Delboy said:

nothing new in it I'm afraid that I did'nt already know or suspect.
The way they discussed the friend who was going to have child at 17 (nealry 18) was insightful...the boyfriend wanted to have 1 for a while!!! The group of girls discussing it as though the baby was an acessory....and sure why not, as the taxpayer will have to step in and pay for all the associated costs!!! It's 1 way of getting a house so as to escape living with parents/grandparents

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+1

I've a friend who's wife is from one of the worst parts of Dublin, but was one of the few who went against the grain and worked her way out, rather than following the usual path for the area. She would concur with the view that a large proportion of the teenagers in these areas get pregnant to get a house and money from the taxpayer - its a deliberate lifestyle choice. Said that a large proportion of her classmates did this when she was a teenager.

csirl said:

+1

I've a friend who's wife is from one of the worst parts of Dublin, but was one of the few who went against the grain and worked her way out, rather than following the usual path for the area. She would concur with the view that a large proportion of the teenagers in these areas get pregnant to get a house and money from the taxpayer - its a deliberate lifestyle choice. Said that a large proportion of her classmates did this when she was a teenager.

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So you heard from a wife of a friend? Complete rubbish. If you had a 'large proportion of classmates' deciding to get pregnant out of lifestyle choice, you would see that repeated across the poorer areas of society unless her class was some sort of statistical anomoly. The fact is that the numbers of teenagers getting pregnant has been pretty steady for decades. There is no evidence of people picking it as a way of life to 'get a house'. To imply that many girls in poor areas of the Country are looking to do this is just playing up every stereotypical argument. No different to the claims that immigrants get free cars if they say they were racially abused on public transport.

If we stopped facilitating unmarried mothers books, houses and prams for teenage parents you can bet your bottom dollar there would be less pregnancies.

The OH was watching it, I came in and out the odd time. Thing that really stood out for me was their accents. I'm not joking when I say that there was large sections of it I couldn't understand.

I wouldn't think too ill of them though, the country is full of young people like this.

Saw this in Liffey Valley about year and a half ago with the girls from the movie in attendance in the cinema. They seemed grand in real life, very disturbing in the movie though!

RMCF said:

I wouldn't think too ill of them though, the country is full of young people like this.

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I don't like it but as someone said to me, is it any different to the generations of teenagers who rebelled before them. People were probably saying the same thing about punks, goths, rockers etc etc....

Sunny said:

So you heard from a wife of a friend? Complete rubbish. If you had a 'large proportion of classmates' deciding to get pregnant out of lifestyle choice, you would see that repeated across the poorer areas of society unless her class was some sort of statistical anomoly. The fact is that the numbers of teenagers getting pregnant has been pretty steady for decades. There is no evidence of people picking it as a way of life to 'get a house'. To imply that many girls in poor areas of the Country are looking to do this is just playing up every stereotypical argument. No different to the claims that immigrants get free cars if they say they were racially abused on public transport.

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[broken link removed]

Combat Poverty stats appear to support my post.

Wishes said:

If we stopped facilitating unmarried mothers books, houses and prams for teenage parents you can bet your bottom dollar there would be less pregnancies.

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I completely agree with this. It drives me crazy the fact that my taxes are funding their choice in lifestyle..... and its when they decide to have baby no 2 or 3....!!!!

csirl said:

Combat Poverty stats appear to support my post.

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Your post said that a large proportion deliberately get pregnant to get housing. Can you specify which part of the Combat Poverty link confirms this deliberate act?

It gives a figure of 16,795 lone parents on the housing list and those that live with extended family 19,452. This is out of 189,213 lone parents.

The CSO report that 89% of those are women which would mean aroun 169,000. Assuming that all of the 16,795 are women, assuming that all of them are young girls, assuming that all of them deliberately got pregnant to get a house, that'd mean that only 10% of those on the housing list deliberately got pregnant.

But then that doesn't include the 11% who are male, those that are separated or single due to a death. But if wish to claim that the link supports your generalisation that a large proportion deliberately got pregnant to get a house, go ahead.

Latrade said:

assuming that all of them are young girls, assuming that all of them deliberately got pregnant to get a house, that'd mean that only 10% of those on the housing list deliberately got pregnant.

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I would say that if 5% of single mothers on the housing list deliberately got pregnant in order to get free housing, that's a very high percentage.
If it's 5% of a class, then every class of 40 girls has 2 deliberately getting pregnant for no real reason other than to stock up on benefits and free housing

That's a lot, IMO !

it's the lack of role models that see's history repeating itself.

These girls have no one in their lifes to look up to or aspire to...hence the life they lead is 'normal'...and to repeat that life for any kids they have is 'normal'.
They don't see education (at their age) as anything other than a chore to be given up at the 1st possible opportunity. I'd love to shout at them all...'do well in school, go to college or get a trade= good job and a better life, or do you want to be stacking shelves or cleaning offices late at night for the rest of your life for a small bit of extra cash over and above any welfare you'll get'
Some people cop on to this when they get older and go back to studying but for most of them, they're stuck in the rut and the chance has gone.

Also, I agree with some earlier posters...the accents are shocking. very hard to decipher...so much for the Americanisation of the Irish youth....that must only be applicable to a certain social class/geographical area in Ireland!!!!

Latrade said:

Your post said that a large proportion deliberately get pregnant to get housing. Can you specify which part of the Combat Poverty link confirms this deliberate act?

.

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The statistics speak for themselves.

The high percentages from the lower socio-economic groups (housing, education, poverty etc) is so statistically significant - multiples of the rate for the general population, that there must be a deliberate cause rather than pure coincidence.

The report also references 'poverty trap' i.e. where people who are otherwise capable of working chose to claim benefits because they are financially better off.

csirl said:

The statistics speak for themselves.

The high percentages from the lower socio-economic groups (housing, education, poverty etc) is so statistically significant - multiples of the rate for the general population, that there must be a deliberate cause rather than pure coincidence.

The report also references 'poverty trap' i.e. where people who are otherwise capable of working chose to claim benefits because they are financially better off.

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The statistics do speak of a poverty trap, I'm not disputing that. I dispute your statement that this report backs up your suggestion that large proportions get pregnant deliberately to get a house.

Delboy said:

Also, I agree with some earlier posters...the accents are shocking. very hard to decipher...so much for the Americanisation of the Irish youth....that must only be applicable to a certain social class/geographical area in Ireland!!!!

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I don't know which is worse, the American D4 twang or the Dunlineese we heard on the programme. The use of subtitles were embarrasing

As regards the stastics by CSO does this include rented accomodation?

Who knows what that girl has seen in her young life, I'm glad to have been raised in different circumstances. I though it was very touching when she was talking about her friendship and how her best friend saved her from a potential hellish life of drug hell. Also, the pain and heartache of the Granny was palpable. It wasn't the best of documentaries, but it told a story.

"Didn't watch it myself Joe"

Anyway I didn't watch it but I did hear the fury on Joe Duffy show
And I wasn't alone, the women who called up only watched bits and pieces of it
Why would you call a national [well Joe believes RTÉ is Dublin local radio ] station and comment on something you haven't even seen??

She was furious at the reputation of Ballyfermot being ruined and claimed she never saw pyjama girls
Well I live in Ballyfermot, it deserves its repution and we don't have a Specsavers so head into town to get your eyes checked. Tesco Ballyfermot has lots of pyjama girls every day

Ah Tesco Ballyer, agreed!