So one in 50 people are tired after 30 days. Lots of minor illnesses result in minor symptoms in a small number of patients weeks and months later. The hysterical nonsense that a large cohort of people have severe symptoms months later is totally bogus.
No, it’s the opposite of that, (can you post a link to your accusation that they are anti centralised government and that this is a Trojan Horse?)Though... Maybe it is the libertarian aspect that you agree with. In which case... Fine.
In the context of my concerns I find that letter/response as myopic as It is ironic.Academy of medical sciences response here...
I am simply looking at the global economic consequences of the policies of the rich world, as anyone who thinks that they won’t have a horrific impact on the poorest people in the world isn’t really thinking.
So one in 50 people are tired after 30 days. Lots of minor illnesses result in minor symptoms in a small number of patients weeks and months later. The hysterical nonsense that a large cohort of people have severe symptoms months later is totally bogus.
Where is the imperial evidence showing that Chronic Fatigue is a statistically significant outcome from Covid19? What proportion of people who catch Covid19 can expect to experience “long covid”? Of them who can expect to suffer significant problems more than 60 days later? I’ve seen nothing to suggest that this is anything other that a very fringe issue.Entirely reasonable and legitimate to be concerned about the long term implications of so many people being infected with a severe new disease.
I’d love to agree with you.I agree. If anyone thinks that upon a vaccine being found and distributed globally that the economies of the world will start to return to the ways things were, I think they are deluded. Firstly, we cannot discount the emergence of a Covid20, or Covid2x
This mere prospect is enough to know that, in order to avoid major political and economic upheaval in the decade ahead, we are now on the cusp of a new economic order.
The limitations of measurements like GDP and profit and loss are exposed now. I'm not saying they don't serve a significant function, but they are deficient in themselves.
In 2010 when we were running deficits of €20-€30bn our interest rate went to 12% and we entered a bailout program. Today we are running a deficit of 6% of GDP and interest rates remain at 0% - (projected deficits of ) Germany 7%, France 11%, Italy 10%, Netherlands 11% should, in general economic theory mean that interest rates should be shooting up, instead they are 0%. The fiscal pact is dead - a useful instrument for an economic order that cannot envisage change. Change is the only constant and the limitations of the eurozone fiscal pact have been torn apart by a microscopic virus.
So how to avoid the poorest of the world getting screwed over is a tall order and history gives no reason for optimism.
However, I also think that we are truly living in an age of technological revolution and the world will be a radically different place in 10yrs than it is now, including, hopefully, an economic system that does not constantly jack-boot the lives of the poorest.
Where is the imperial evidence showing that Chronic Fatigue is a statistically significant outcome from Covid19? What proportion of people who catch Covid19 can expect to experience “long covid”? Of them who can expect to suffer significant problems more than 60 days later? I’ve seen nothing to suggest that this is anything other that a very fringe issue.
It’s not entirely reasonable to use that as a justification for condemning millions of people to die of something else.
I really don’t understand why you are ascribing such base motives to the doctors and scientists who are leading this group. Why do you think they want people to die? Do they have a collective desire to inflict gratuitous suffering on a public that they have to date spent their lives trying to help?Are they part of some sort of James Bond type grand conspiracy?
Or to they have genuine concerns about the current consensus based on their expertise?
Despite having the heaviest restrictions in Europe for the longest period. we still have now amongst the highest corona incidences, the restrictions are not working. The rest is noise !!We could lift restrictions if people follow health advice. People could resume employment.
The rest is noise.
So you don’t think that actions which cause tens of millions of people who literally live from week to week to not have an income to buy food will result in them starving?The premise is completely false. Nobody is condemning millions of people to die of something else.
It’s entirely reasonable to worry about something which may happen and so far has shown to actually happen in a very small number of cases with generally mild and relatively short term symptoms. It is not even slightly reasonable to react in such a way that will have gross and catastrophic consequences for millions of people elsewhere. That is certainly hysterical.I repeat entirely reasonable to be concerned about long Covid we are only months into this pandemic, simply put the studies aren't available either way which is why the precautionary principle must be adopted before letting this virus rip through society.
I said that NEPHT members may lack empathy due to their generally privileged and cosseted background. I certainly didn’t question their base motives. It is entirely reasonable to also ask the same question of this group, as it is unfair to level the same latter accusation.I don't think they want people to die, but they are obviously unconcerned with the deaths and ICU admissions of the vulnerable and non-vulnerable to which their plan will lead to.
I find it very strange that earlier in the thread one of your criticisms for NPHET was they they lacked empthay and questioned their base motives (i.e. they will still be paid).
what evidence is there that the proposed method will result in a higher number of deaths? The reason deaths were so high in Care Homes during the initial phase was their protocols on respiratory difficulties (which I outlined in a previous thread), the lack of PPE and the lack of other specific protocols.Yet you support the Great Barrington Declaration whose plan to protect care homes is... let enough care home staff get infected with immunity.
Much empthay being shown there for care home staff and their families?
how do you know it will have a greater net impact on total Covid19 deaths, let alone total deaths due to the pandemic?Bearing in mind this will kill and send to ICU a certain % of even non-vulnerable workers, should we even know in advance whether they are vulnerable or not.
how do you know it will have a greater net impact on total Covid19 deaths, let alone total deaths due to the pandemic?
No. I don’t.Surely you know that yourself @Purple.
So you don’t think that actions which cause tens of millions of people who literally live from week to week to not have an income to buy food will result in them starving?
what evidence is there that the proposed method will result in a higher number of deaths?
how do you know it will have a greater net impact on total Covid19 deaths, let alone total deaths due to the pandemic?
No, it’s the opposite of that, (can you post a link to your accusation that they are anti centralised government and that this is a Trojan Horse?)
You really can’t see that reducing international trade from the poorest countries in the world will cause starvation and suffering? Your response is at best obtuse. I’m sure you are aware of the political and economic history of Central Asia and sub-Saharan Africa and the ongoing political and economic colonialism they are subjected to. I’m sure people made the same arguments you are making in drawing rooms in London about Ireland during the famine.It is a non-sequitur argument, with no standing as to how Ireland should respond to a lockdown.
What, is our Taoiseach supposed to phone Imran Khan before deciding whether to move Ireland up or down a Level?
Does Imran Khan gives us this privilege when deciding what restrictions to apply in Pakistan?
Or how much to spend on his military budget?
It's an absurd position not worthy of serious consideration, which is why I hve highlighted how ridiculous it is.
It would require an unknowable level of knowledge
Thanks. I’m not a fan of “isms” as ideology is the enemy of reason but I am also strongly against tariffs and things like the Common Agricultural Policy as it caused untold suffering and poverty and causes massive levels of environmental damage. In short they are worth listening to though they seem to be coming at this from their own Strong ideological perspective.Its from the American Institute for Economic Research.
I repeat entirely reasonable to be concerned about long Covid we are only months into this pandemic, simply put the studies aren't available either way which is why the precautionary principle must be adopted before letting this virus rip through society.
There will be the free spread of the virus in the countries with the poorest and most inadequate health systems. It will happen because the choice will be risk infection or face starvation.Right. Then think out the global impact on the poor of the free spread of the virus to inadequate or non-existent health systems if and until herd immunity is achieved.
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