The culture of moaning ...

Something struck me recently, and I am currently watching a recording of the Frontline about caring for the elderly. Bear with me on this.

I catch the occasional Joe Duffy, watch Prime Time and the Frontline regularly. Also listen to phone-ins on local radio.

The vast majority of these may be classed as investigations into issues, but essentially they are moaning sessions. People just complain and say our Gov are totally inept and useless at providing care or services.

Now I got to thinking that the way the general public want things solved is simply impossible and impractical. It could not be done. It covers all aspects of society - be it unemployment, the HSE, the economy, the infrastructure, the education system, the drug problem etc etc. I'll look at one example as I am currently watching the Front Line.

I am watching the minister for the elderly getting ripped to bits about bad care getting supplied. Now Gov's have to try to do whatever they can within certain budgets. We all listen to the stories on the likes of the Frontline and Prime Time and think "thats terrible, they need to fix that".

Now if the Gov said, "we could fix all these things but to do it we need to increase taxes to maybe 50% for everyone working". Then would we all be so quick to slag them off?

Its not possible to have this utopia that everyone wants. The money does not exist in the system to do it. You have to do the best you can.

Sometimes arguments are raised that aren't true, but used to bash whoever is there to take the beating. The minister for the elderly was told by Kenny that "the UK has a law that says every elderly person is entitled to care" as if its some sort of wonder law. Well I have a 70yr old mother who cares for her 90yr old mother who has dementia, and she gets a home help of 30mins per day. The home help does nothing except chat to my mum then leave. Yeah, fantastic service that, great law that Don't stand there and say "the UK are great and we are rubbish". The health service and care for the elderly is awful in the UK too.

Sorry for the rant, but we seem to have all turned into a nation of people who love moaning, all the time. Lets all pay up more and get these things fixed. Who will be 1st to pay more tax ? Sorry, but the silence would be deafening.

Why is more tax needed?

If the govt could show that all our current taxes are being spent efficiently and effectively then maybe you might have a point

Until then ...

have to agree with DB74 on this one......way too much waste of tax money in this country.

Because I basically think that if every pensioner is to be looked after, every sick person cared for, every operation done, every child schooled perfectly, every road built, every crime solved, public sector pay unchanged, high social security payments maintained (and so on) then it would require more money. I think thats safe to say.

Cos these are the sorts of things that people will continue moaning about as long as they exist.

To achieve a utopian society, taxes would have to be sky high.

DB74 said:

Why is more tax needed?

If the govt could show that all our current taxes are being spent efficiently and effectively then maybe you might have a point

Until then ...

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I totally agree. "Efficiently" "Effectively" and Accountability.

RMCF said:

Because I basically think that if every pensioner is to be looked after, every sick person cared for, every operation done, every child schooled perfectly, every road built, every crime solved, public sector pay unchanged, high social security payments maintained (and so on) then it would require more money. I think thats safe to say.

Cos these are the sorts of things that people will continue moaning about as long as they exist.

To achieve a utopian society, taxes would have to be sky high.

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And then people would be moaning about their taxes and spongers. It's in the genes of Irish people never to be happy

I've always felt that it'd make a great case study, looking over a year's worth of Duffy transcripts and looking at what people expect the government to provide and to what extent and then work out the costings for that.

Mind, I do think even if we had a super efficient system that was super cost effective, we'd still find something to phone Joe about.

Mpsox said:

It's in the genes of Irish people never to be happy

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But, paradoxically, according to these so called "happiness surveys" we always score highly. One of the highest in Europe I think?

Figure that one out

Caveat said:

But, paradoxically, according to these so called "happiness surveys" we always score highly. One of the highest in Europe I think?

Figure that one out

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not sure we moan, sometimes I feel it is more about NIMBYism.

Caveat said:

But, paradoxically, according to these so called "happiness surveys" we always score highly. One of the highest in Europe I think?

Figure that one out

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Maybe its because "venting" can be good. Look at all material about stress/depression etc, it all says "talk to someone you trust......". So maybe Joe Duffy is Counsellor to the masses, psychotherapy over the radio, Dr. Frasier Crane without the wit - and it keeps us, as a nation, happy.

If things were done properly and fairly people wouldn't have to 'moan' about them through the media. Are you saying that exposing what was going on in Leas Cross, or the ridiculous pension arrangements for TDs, or the flaws in our health system are a waste of time? Unfortunately, a lot of people will only act with integrity if they are embarassed and shamed into it.

I like a good old moan...in the bedroom...

BOOM BOOM!

Sorry, that's just what my mind thought of when I raid the thread subject!

Back on topic: We could always go the Scandic route of very high taxes...but generally everything works.

Liveline is like a forum for moaners.

Does anybody remember Oscar the Grouch?

He is an optimist compared to many live line callers.

I think lately that the problem with the moaning going on is that it's general moaning. For example I hear a lot of moaning about the government and the banks etc but that's it just general whining and if you try to pin down someone about what specifically is bothering them - they just say "we are paying for the bankers" or " the government have this country the way it is". Now, maybe they do have a point - but I think it shows a lack of education or even just lack of interest in current affairs - they don't know the specifics of even why they are upset. Are people reading the newspapers? or are they just repeating what they have heard from others or down the pub?. I am sick of meeting people and you ask how they are and they given some general whinge along the lines of " ah sure you know yourself, things are very tough at the moment"..... reeeeally why? you have a job, so does your husband.... you have no major worries as far as bills go and you are off on holliers next week.... tell me what's so tough??. Other general comments - " we should just get rid of the whole lot of them" [the government] - heard a million times on Mr Duffys show - Really and what do you suggest we put in their place or is that the limit of your thought process?.

People whine and moan now because it has taken the place of discussion about house prices and stuff they have bought! - it's de rigeur to moan at the moment! .

Rant over..... jeeze that was pretty moany wasn't it

ney - I think you're being a little unfair. A lot of those moaning about the Government are advocating voting for alternative political parties, so they are making suggestions on who we put in their place.

As for the moaning about the government/bankers etc. - these people are moaning about the lack of moral hazard in certain parts of Irish society.

liaconn said:

If things were done properly and fairly people wouldn't have to 'moan' about them through the media. Are you saying that exposing what was going on in Leas Cross, or the ridiculous pension arrangements for TDs, or the flaws in our health system are a waste of time? Unfortunately, a lot of people will only act with integrity if they are embarassed and shamed into it.

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no of course specific cases can be mentioned and attention drawn to them, but if the minister had been brutally honest the other night on the Front Line her answer simply of "look folks I haven't got the money to look after you all and your relatives when they get old" would have been correct.

however, they can never say this, no matter how true it is.

Kine said:

We could always go the Scandic route of very high taxes...but generally everything works.

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It's in their culture that everything works, not in ours. Small government is the only solution. Small government combined with personal responsibility. I don't want the State sitting in my sitting room, taking my money and telling me how to live. For what is the State, only a collective of busybodies?

csirl said:

ney - I think you're being a little unfair. A lot of those moaning about the Government are advocating voting for alternative political parties, so they are making suggestions on who we put in their place.

As for the moaning about the government/bankers etc. - these people are moaning about the lack of moral hazard in certain parts of Irish society.

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No csirl - I am just talking really about people I come in contact with - they are moaning for the sake of moaning - like I say just general comments about the government in general - nothing specific, just how crap they are, no suggestions to make it better or anything and I know that if I were to ask who the minister for say transport was, they wouldn't know. Look, everybody is entitled to a moan but they should be specific about their moaning, general moaning bugs me as does general negativity. Specifics People!

What I find with programmes like Liveline is that they give bad example.

People moaning about all & sundry

I love a good ole moan. I know that wont fix the problem but I feel better for the few minutes while I moan....