By providing them with somewhere to live?You can dress it up all you like, but the fact is that an investor who has 300K ( inheritance, well paid job, luck) will be able to exploit people who don't have 300k, through our dysfunctional housing system.
I agree with the above. For me and I would guess many small landlords, fear of Sinn Fein forming part of the next government and implementing their stated policy that investment properties must be sold with the tenant in situ would be of greater concern than tweaking the tax treatment., I wish SF would shut up with the scare tactics. Work with LL to solve the problem. Fighting and alienating LL isn't going to do anything to solve things, ease the plight of renters etc. It does seem to gain them politic point scoring from the very people they are hurting the most, i.e. renters
You are correct and those two factors are the main reasons for the landlord exodus. Faster ways of getting rid of real problem tenants would also be good as would less pointless RTB paperwork. Also, someone to actually answer an email or pick up the phone in the RTB would be great as well.I was thinking about the tax treatment of landlords over the last while and while I thankfully haven't ever had a bad tenant, I believe that I would favour two things over a reduction in tax. Believe me, I want to pay less tax, who doesn't.
I would also like for RPZ to be looked at. It's unfair to limit LLs with mortgages to 2% a year, especially when they are miles behind market rent. This is a driving force for small one property LL to leave the sector. If on a tracker mortgage your interest may well have increased upto €200 a month since July 2022 and yet your rent can be increased perhaps €25 - €50 max a month. That €150 differential may have turned a small profit into a loss making investment for many LL.
Secondly, I wish SF would shut up with the scare tactics. Work with LL to solve the problem. Fighting and alienating LL isn't going to do anything to solve things, ease the plight of renters etc. It does seem to gain them politic point scoring from the very people they are hurting the most, i.e. renters.
The situation is more complex than you suggest. The reason why we don't have enough social housing is because we sold it of at knock down prices in the interests of vote buying. Ireland has been selling off social housing since the 1930s, long before Thatcher was even born. Currently council tenants can buy their house for between 40 and 60% below market value,I said that the state would fund housing, through the local authorities, or by creating not-for profit housing trusts.
The financing of state housing would come from the state. It would be paid back by rent. If rent doesn't cover the costs then the state would subsidise the housing through the taxations system. This, currently, happens anyway, except the subsidy is going to private landlords, or large international investors.
We did this in the 50's, 60's and 70's. You said something about slave labour, or making your own concrete blocks, which I didn't really understand.
But public investment in public housing is perfectly viable. It was the norm until the Anglosphere fell under the dark spell of Regan and Thatcher.
Spending billions on public housing would be a very positive investment, with huge societal benefits , for decades to come.
Everyone is looking for the quick fix, a tax break, or rental zones, or some such brainwave, but the only solution is long term planning. Large scale, nationwide and funded by good old fashioned public investment.
I'm not convinced it had anything to do with vote buying. in fact the opposite is likely to be true. If you're in a council house you need the council to maintain it and to some extent or other you're at the mercy of the politicians who dominate the council. If the tenant buys out the place, the politicians lose control of you and your family, and you are then free to vote for whoever you like..The reason why we don't have enough social housing is because we sold it of at knock down prices in the interests of vote buying. Ireland has been selling off social housing since the 1930s, long before Thatcher was even born. Currently council tenants can buy their house for between 40 and 60% below market value,
They couldn't afford to replenish the stock either.Selling the housing isn't a problem if you replenish the stock. But we didn't.
I don't agree. We currently sell council housing at between 40 and 60 per cent below market value. The market value is the likely replacement value do the taxpayer has to pay the 40 to 60 per cent each time to replace these dwellings. No country in the world has maintained a large social housing stock with high levels of sales. The reason Austria has so much social housing isn't because they built less social than us (they actually build similar amounts as a % of all dwellings) but because they didn't sell it off.Selling the housing isn't a problem if you replenish the stock. But we didn't.
You can't buy a leveraged house. You can buy shares in companies which are highly leveraged, increasing your risks and your potential rewards. The interest which those companies pay is a deductible, reducing their taxable profits and likely reducing your taxable dividend. So it's not really all that different, when you look at it in this way.Hi Coyote
Why should any of those factors affect the allowability of interest?
If I borrow €100,00 to invest in shares and pay €6,000 a year interest on my loan, why should I pay tax on the dividends of €4,000?
If I borrow €100,000 to invest in property and pay €6,000 interest, I can set that against the €4,000 rent.
I can't see any reason for treating them differently. But maybe I am missing something.
Brendan
I don't agree. We currently sell council housing at between 40 and 60 per cent below market value. The market value is the likely replacement value do the taxpayer has to pay the 40 to 60 per cent each time to replace these dwellings. No country in the world has maintained a large social housing stock with high levels of sales. The reason Austria has so much social housing isn't because they built less social than us (they actually build similar amounts as a % of all dwellings) but because they didn't sell it off.
I think we definitely need more social housing and renting from a private landlord isn't a good long term optikn particularly for vulnerable people or people with children. But we as a nation also need to have an honest conversation with ourselves about how we got to this point. Mismanagement of social hoosong is a large part of it and we can't invest a pile of money in social housing simply to repeat the mistakes of the past.
I also think we need a flexible private rented sector to house people who need to move into or internally within Ireland. This is vital for our economy, the functioning of our universities etc I think a lot of our problems is due to the fact that the private rented sector is being expected to provide both long term homes for vulnerable and low income people and short term housing for students, people working in Google etc. It can't fulfill both roles satisfactorily.
100% correct, the PRS in Ireland anyway, should really only be used by people who want to rent because they need something relatively short term and flexible ie. it suits the tenant to rent. People who need permanent homes should either be able to buy or be in social housing.I don't agree. We currently sell council housing at between 40 and 60 per cent below market value. The market value is the likely replacement value do the taxpayer has to pay the 40 to 60 per cent each time to replace these dwellings. No country in the world has maintained a large social housing stock with high levels of sales. The reason Austria has so much social housing isn't because they built less social than us (they actually build similar amounts as a % of all dwellings) but because they didn't sell it off.
I think we definitely need more social housing and renting from a private landlord isn't a good long term optikn particularly for vulnerable people or people with children. But we as a nation also need to have an honest conversation with ourselves about how we got to this point. Mismanagement of social hoosong is a large part of it and we can't invest a pile of money in social housing simply to repeat the mistakes of the past.
I also think we need a flexible private rented sector to house people who need to move into or internally within Ireland. This is vital for our economy, the functioning of our universities etc I think a lot of our problems is due to the fact that the private rented sector is being expected to provide both long term homes for vulnerable and low income people and short term housing for students, people working in Google etc. It can't fulfill both roles satisfactorily.
Secondly, I wish SF would shut up with the scare tactics. Work with LL to solve the problem. Fighting and alienating LL isn't going to do anything to solve things, ease the plight of renters etc. It does seem to gain them politic point scoring from the very people they are hurting the most, i.e. renters.
Thank Rory Hearne for peddling his usual false information. If adopting his mandate, they should give landlords twelve months to get out of the game or stay in and these are the rules in twelve months time. See how many landlords stick around then.I second this, it's a big issue for me. I'm tired of people thinking that it's us against them. Tenant vs landlord and that we are terrible people. We are not evil, I'd guess that as a percentage a very small amount of landlords take the p**s. I'm fair with my rent and tenants and have never had a complaint. Any others I know operate much the same. Yes I'm in this to make money, but that doesn't mean I'm the villain of the housing crisis.
Recently I found myself defending making a profit from renting houses to a guy who was convinced it's the landlord against the tenant and that landlords are all getting rich off the back of poor tenants. He didn't even realise that we pay tax on the rental income! When I told him I pay 52% he was actually surprised and it changed his tone.
The message has been going out there for years that we're somehow evil and it's really bloody frustrating. Especially when some of the people listening to this are not very educated on the matter. They just hear populist non-sense and then repeat it.
Threshold very much to blame as well - constant anti-landlord stories placed in the media.I second this, it's a big issue for me. I'm tired of people thinking that it's us against them. Tenant vs landlord and that we are terrible people. We are not evil, I'd guess that as a percentage a very small amount of landlords take the p**s. I'm fair with my rent and tenants and have never had a complaint. Any others I know operate much the same. Yes I'm in this to make money, but that doesn't mean I'm the villain of the housing crisis.
Recently I found myself defending making a profit from renting houses to a guy who was convinced it's the landlord against the tenant and that landlords are all getting rich off the back of poor tenants. He didn't even realise that we pay tax on the rental income! When I told him I pay 52% he was actually surprised and it changed his tone.
The message has been going out there for years that we're somehow evil and it's really bloody frustrating. Especially when some of the people listening to this are not very educated on the matter. They just hear populist non-sense and then repeat it.
That is the situation is a nutshell!Community group brings challenge against permission for 150 homes in Crumlin | BreakingNews.ie
The locals supporting the action “sincerely want” to see the site of Glebe House appropriately developed for housing, the court was toldwww.breakingnews.ie
One or two posters above touched on a huge part of the problem. Private landlords shouldn't be letting houses to people who don't want to be renting in the first place. People who need social housing are a different market to people who want to rent but because the government have been letting private landlords pick up the slack on housing citizens that they can't build for, that market and the rental market have merged.
If you're renting to people who don't want to rent and can't afford the rents landlords need for a return, then of course they are going to be unhappy and that creates an us and them attitude. It's the government they should be looking to though, not vilifying landlords.
BTW... https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland...mission-for-150-homes-in-crumlin-1419422.html
When someone does try to build and alleviate some pressure, it very often gets dragged out for years or refused. So how can you win.
We did - we actually had sold 2/3 of the stock by 1968. And one of the reasons it was sold was to finance old loans before the new ones came in.Selling the housing isn't a problem if you replenish the stock. But we didn't.
its a vicious circle and highly politicised - there is now pressure from left to "shrink" the private rented sector i.e. make it smaller. But there is no acceptance that the size of the PRS itself has an impact on asking rents. So any policy decision to try to "protect" rental stock is read as "bailing out landlords" - whatever you think of them currently political untouchables, so no action is taken.Minister of finance should not engage in moralising about fairness of tax system but should act on facts i.e landlords are leaving market in midst of housing crisis.The question he must ask is how to stabilise the private rental sector by legislation or budgetary measures
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