stupid planning laws

rabbit said:

I have seen in a few different parts of the country where some people get turned down in their reasonable developments, when other people - who happen to be "friendly" with the planners + councillors - get away with monstrosites.

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Hear hear. I have personal experience of 2 families who were refused permission to build for years even though generations of them farmed the land. They sold up, and the land was developed into housing estates within 5 years. Anyone who thinks the planning system here is fair and regulated is naive at best. The advice I would give is go to councillors. And be prepared to fight.

Two points.

Firstly, planning laws are based on the appropriateness of the development for the particular site and how it fits in with the Development Plan for the area. Whether or not a building is permitted is based on the merit of the building NOT the occupiers. Reasons - 1. buildings usually last longer than the occupants, sometimes 100s years. 2. you cannot prevent someone from selling once permission is given.

Point Two.

Nobody in Ireland has an automatic right to live in the area they are originally from. Otherwise the Government would be obliged to give grants to e.g. Dublinners who cant afford housing in Dublin. For the OP, if you want to live near your parents, then you'll just have to pay market price for an existing house nearby. If you cant afford to or there are no houses available, then tough, you are no different than many other people in Ireland who cannot live beside their parents due to house price or no houses for sale in an area.

That sounds like planner speak to me! So let me give you real life example of why your first point is inaccurate.
A relation of mine succeeded in getting planning for a house on his land. All went through hunky dorey. The planning officer for the area in question was moved to a new area and a new planning officer took over. The new planner took issue with the planning permission already given to my relation. My relation won his case, on the basis that the planning departments own documents cited the house he was planning to build as a fine example of the buildings they wished to encourage.

What I find when dealing with various arms of government is that they state their policies as if those policies were gospel, when in fact all the are is hot air. What is written, and what ACTUALLY happens is always a lot different. Every government department has fine sounding rhetoric on every aspect which comes under their remit. After all, writing this rhetoric and then reciting it to the rest of us is probably 70% of their job. But when you dig a little deeper you find out how things are REALLY run.

Now, of course I would win no court case on this without getting x,y and z witnesses to stand up and speak on it - but seeing as how x, y and z know how the system works and use that knowledge to their advantage, well - it isn't in their interests to make that public.

As for part 2 - I agree with your point, but not with the absolute lack of sympathy for the OP. I like to refer to the Irish government as the Dublin government - they run things for the benefit of Dublin and the rest of the country tends to be of secondary concern. The economy of course requires this, as does democracy - where the majority vote is paramount. I would still like to see a better balance myself, where people like the OP get decent rights for their own land.

rabbit said:

I have seen in a few different parts of the country where some people get turned down in their reasonable developments, when other people - who happen to be "friendly" with the planners + councillors - get away with monstrosites.

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.... and the Councils also get away with monstrosities too! :mad:

Wicklow Council have re-zoned agricultural land on Bride's Head near the lighthouse on the outskirts of Wicklow Town and plan to move the local GAA club to this incredibly beautiful, thus far unspoilt headland.

I would imagine the OP's house on his family land would be nothing compared to the eyesore that will be created by two GAA pitches with terraces, towering goal posts, fencing, car park and a club house. The extra traffic on the small country road will bring noise and danger (there's no footpath) and no doubt there will be littering as well.

Stupid planning laws .....

shnaek said:

That sounds like planner speak to me! So let me give you real life example of why your first point is inaccurate.
A relation of mine succeeded in getting planning for a house on his land. All went through hunky dorey. The planning officer for the area in question was moved to a new area and a new planning officer took over. The new planner took issue with the planning permission already given to my relation. My relation won his case, on the basis that the planning departments own documents cited the house he was planning to build as a fine example of the buildings they wished to encourage.

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How did the new planning officer's views come out? Once permission has been given, it doesn't matter what staff changes happen. Permission is not dependant on new staff.

why i should be refused on the grounds that i dont need to live there or that

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The thing is dbrady you have not been refused - Get your self a really good architect, he will also help you fill out the application as well. And yes living near your parents who are in the 70's is a very valid reason.
TBH I would not get upset at this point - this is only the beginning - there will probably be many more hoops to jump and hairs gone grey by the time you get the permission... Keep your strength up for the real battle - when your application is in!!! Start eating porridge ....

RainyDay said:

How did the new planning officer's views come out? Once permission has been given, it doesn't matter what staff changes happen. Permission is not dependant on new staff.

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It was strange alright. My relation had been given permission under certain conditions (regarding location of a septic tank). It was when he was dealing with this matter that the staff changed and these issues arose.

shnaek said:

It was strange alright. My relation had been given permission under certain conditions (regarding location of a septic tank). It was when he was dealing with this matter that the staff changed and these issues arose.

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So are you saying your friend was trying to build something that went beyond the terms of the original permission? The original permission doesn't change, regardless of the views of the new staffer.

hi

Thanks for all the info and support ( shown by most ). I have inlisted a local Archetect to assist me and have got letters of support from neighbours my old school, priest ect and have a pre planning meeting in january. So hopefully i will take my first steps on the long hard and filled with pot holes road that is planning permission and with a bit of luck get to build a home

Good luck dbrady - picture yourself as Rocky Balboa - there are tough times ahead (my brother went through a NIGHTMARE trying to get planning on family land) but take loads of deep breaths and get the best architect you can afford and all will go well...