State Contributory Pension .-Advice

Morning all:
I will be 66 this coming August so thinking about requesting application forms to apply for Contributory Pension shortly

Attached is a record of my contributions todate some of which I would welcome clarity and your input on.

Firstly I noticed the date of entry is 11th July 1975 but am pretty sure this should be mid October 1975. Not entirely sure when in October.
Does it make any significant difference?

I had temporary employment in the public service from October1975 between Libraries, civil service and Dublin Corporation until May 1976 when I started my first permanent position with County Council and remained there until I took a retirement package on 24th January 1988 apart from a career break to mind my children from mid October 1984 to January 1986 when I returned to my position.
However the first few years contributions are recorded as WOPS. Any idea why this might be and is it in any way significant.

Also 1987/88 is recorded as 52K1. However I worked all of 1987 until 24th January 1988 when I retired and am in receipt of a small pension since then.
Should most of these be recorded as D1.

Apart from a few A contributions in 1988/89 and 1989/90 and another few A,s in 2002 my A contribution record does not really begin until 2004.
I have a full 52 A contributions each year from 2007 up to and including 2021.
I also have approximately 35 A contributions for work from January until 31st August 2022. The 12 credits showing are for sick leave during this period but I will also have A contributions at the same time.
I am currently receiving the over 65 payment since Sept 1st 2022.

My youngest child was 12 in Feb 2002 and Dept of Social Protection previously indicated that I would be entitled to the Home Care disregard introduced in 1994.

Was there any Home Caring disregard allowed prior to 1994 or any other credit that would help enhance my Contributory Pension.

Apologies for the long message but I would appreciate any help and suggestions from many of the knowledgeable people on this forum.
Best Regards and Happy Monday

WOPS (Widow's and Orphans pension scheme) are the pre-1979 equivalent of modified PRSI contributions, B1 or D1.
If you worked from April 1987 to early 1988 and have some documentation to show the class of PRSI you paid (e.g. a P60) your record can be updated.
There was no homemaker scheme before 1994.

A new Homecaring Periods Scheme was introduced in 2018 which gives credits for years prior to 1994 (for minding children under the age of 12). Those credits should appear on your record.

Thanks Conan, I'd forgotten about the new scheme for disregarding years.
The disregarded years won't appear on a contribution record,but will form part of the SPC calculations when an application is received.
If a person is availing of the homecaring disregard, entitlement to pension is based on the total contribution approach only.

gipimann said:

WOPS (Widow's and Orphans pension scheme) are the pre-1979 equivalent of modified PRSI contributions, B1 or D1.
If you worked from April 1987 to early 1988 and have some documentation to show the class of PRSI you paid (e.g. a P60) your record can be updated.
There was no homemaker scheme before 1994.

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Thanks Gipimann.
That's brilliant yhat the period pre 1979 is equivalent to B1 or D1 so I don't need to take any action on them and maybe they can be used towards mixed contributions pension which I have rad something about on here .

On searching I cannot find the P60 but have a few old payslips from that period which might help. Any idea which part of Department of Social Protectio I need to sort this out with or would I just send details with my application for COAP.

Conan said:

A new Homecaring Periods Scheme was introduced in 2018 which gives credits for years prior to 1994 (for minding children under the age of 12). Those credits should appear on your record.

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Thanks Conan.
Trying to get the maximum contributions and pension that's feasible. Will look into that some more..

gipimann said:

Thanks Conan, I'd forgotten about the new scheme for disregarding years.
The disregarded years won't appear on a contribution record,but will form part of the SPC calculations when an application is received.
If a person is availing of the homecaring disregard, entitlement to pension is based on the total contribution approach only.

HomeCaring Periods Scheme

The HomeCaring Periods Scheme can help you get a higher rate of State Pension (Contributory) if you spent time out of work to care full-time for a child aged under 12, or a person aged 12 or over (including an adult) who needed an increased level of care.

www.citizensinformation.ie

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Thanks again. I presume the Departmrnt would decide if the total contribution is the best route to go.
Grateful for the helpful replies.

Meath Lady said:

Thanks Gipimann.
That's brilliant yhat the period pre 1979 is equivalent to B1 or D1 so I don't need to take any action on them and maybe they can be used towards mixed contributions pension which I have rad something about on here .

On searching I cannot find the P60 but have a few old payslips from that period which might help. Any idea which part of Department of Social Protectio I need to sort this out with or would I just send details with my application for COAP.

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You can contact the following section
PRSI Records
Department of Social Protection
McCarter's Road
Ardaravan
Buncrana
Donegal
Ireland
Tel: (01) 471 5898 or 0818 690 690

gipimann said:

You can contact the following section
PRSI Records
Department of Social Protection
McCarter's Road
Ardaravan
Buncrana
Donegal
Ireland
Tel: (01) 471 5898 or 0818 690 690

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Thanks. Much appreciated.

Meath Lady said:

Thanks again. I presume the Departmrnt would decide if the total contribution is the best route to go.
Grateful for the helpful replies.

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Under current rules, the Dept will calculate your State Pension entitlement under both the Average method and the Total Contribution Approach. And you the higher of the two methods.
If you claim credits under the Homecaring Periods Scheme (pre94 years) then the Total Contribution Approach only is used.

Conan said:

Under current rules, the Dept will calculate your State Pension entitlement under both the Average method and the Total Contribution Approach. And you the higher of the two methods.
If you claim credits under the Homecaring Periods Scheme (pre94 years) then the Total Contribution Approach only is used.

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Have you any idea if I look to claim pre 94 credits will the Dept decide whether I am better with that option or the total approach option or is it best to just ignore the pre 94 years.

Meath Lady said:

Have you any idea if I look to claim pre 94 credits will the Dept decide whether I am better with that option or the total approach option or is it best to just ignore the pre 94 years.

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I know I could add them up, but assuming you already have, how many contributions do you have on that statement?

Lisgoold said:

I know I could add them up, but assuming you already have, how many contributions do you have on that statement?

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I reckon if I they were all put in correctly I would have 530 D and WOPS and 10 Wops credits.
Then about 940 A1s and 13A1 credits.
I possibly would also get about 17 or 18 credits for over 65s payment until the end of December 2022. (END OF THE YEAR BEFORE YOU ARE 66). That's if I understand it correctly.

Back again now with my full record from the Department of SW received yesterday
However no explanation given on how they arrive at the final figure.
From adding up my A contributions and Credits I can see how they arrived at my total reckonable paid and credited contributions.
It appears as though all the modified paid and credited were not counted for anything.
As I have reached a yearly average of 38 according to this statement (not clear to me how that is arrived at but may be obvious to some of you good people), I would dearly love to try bring this up to a yearly average of 40 if at all possible to qualify for the next Social Welfard rate which I think is 260 a week.
I know I am clutching at straws here but any thoughts of advice welcome before
I ring them early next week.
Thanking you in anticipation.

Hi Meath lady- it seems to be quite complicated how SW work it out. . My working life was 1974 to2022. Mix of D and A contributions. I attach letter showing I have 1397 contributions with an average of 29. I queried this as I was originally given an average of 27. This made no difference to my payment. I am interested to see if you get any further than I did

The "Average" figure is arrived at by dividing your total number of weekly contributions (incl Reckonable Credits) by your number of years in the PRSI system (from when you first paid PRSI).
To get a full State Pension you need an Average of 48 contributions pa. If your average number is between 40 and 48 then you get a 98% Pension.
If the average is between 30 and 39 you get a 90% Pension.

Fiddlybits said:

Hi Meath lady- it seems to be quite complicated how SW work it out. . My working life was 1974 to2022. Mix of D and A contributions. I attach letter showing I have 1397 contributions with an average of 29. I queried this as I was originally given an average of 27. This made no difference to my payment. I am interested to see if you get any further than I did

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Hi Fiddlybits.
Are the mix of D and A added together to bring you to the total of the 1397. They obviously divided these by your full working life to get the 29. How did they bring it from 27 to 29. If you could get it to 30 you would be in the next bracket which is 238 50euro.

They don't appear to have included mine but this could be to do with Homecaring credits. It's a pity they dont send some more detailed explanation..

Conan said:

The "Average" figure is arrived at by dividing your total number of weekly contributions (incl Reckonable Credits) by your number of years in the PRSI system (from when you first paid PRSI).
To get a full State Pension you need an Average of 48 contributions pa. If your average number is between 40 and 48 then you get a 98% Pension.
If the average is between 30 and 39 you get a 90% Pension.

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Hi Conan.
So in this instance do I go from 1975 to 2022. (IE the end of the year before I turn 66) that is 47 years. Do I count all of 1975 although I only commenced work in 3rd quarter of 1975.
Counting all contributions A and D and all reckonable credits and modified credits I have 1580.. if I divide this by 48 I arrive at 32 or if I divide it by 40 I get 39.5.
However they seem not to have included the modified ones as they indicated I had 1078, and I therefore I am struggling to figure out how they worked out the average.
Any further thoughts.

Meath Lady said:

It appears as though all the modified paid and credited were not counted for anything.

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That's because they're not reckonable for the State Contributory Pension! The only numbers that count are the ones in the columns that include the word "reckonable" in the header.

Your PRSI contribution history spans the period 1975 to 2023, which is 48 years. If we disregard 2023 as being the year when you turn 66, then the divisor should be 47 years, however, dividing your average yearly contributions (38, according to the SW letter) into your total reckonable contributions (1078) produces a result of 28.3 (years). So Social Welfare appear to have allowed you a disregard of 20 years, presumably for homemaking - this is the maximum allowed. So you're doing very well; and to answer your main question I don't see any way in which you can retrospectively increase your PRSI contributions.

But others may be more imaginative than me!

Shirazman said:

That's because they're not reckonable for the State Contributory Pension! The only numbers that count are the ones in the columns that include the word "reckonable" in the header.

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Thank you

Shirazman said:

Your PRSI contribution history spans the period 1975 to 2023, which is 48 years. If we disregard 2023 as being the year when you turn 66, then the divisor should be 47 years,

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I have noticed now on citizens advice that if I paid my first full rate contribution before 1991 and before I was 56 (which I did) I can use that date as my entry into employment. In my case this would be 1988/1989. So perhaps this may change my yearly average
So Social Welfare appear to have allowed you a disregard of 20 years, presumably for homemaking - this is the maximum allowed. So you're doing very well; and to answer your main question I don't see any way in which you can retrospectively increase your PRSI contributions.

Shirazman said:

But others may be more imaginative than me!

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I doubt very much they gave me a 20 year disregard as I would not have been eligible for that period.
I also was however not trying to retrospectively increase my PRSI contributions just attempting to establish if there may be alternative criteria that may enhance my average.