Long term 'buy & hold' is called a sucker play by the pro's Betsy.
If you must dabble in shares. CFd's or spreadbets are the way to go. The commissions charged by Irish brokers are outrageous.
hmm, but isnt there also the theory that is you keep jumping in and out the only one making money is the broker.
-This is where the skill of a trader comes in
My logic is that, in the long run and on average, share values rise. Due to recent shocks a lot of the financials are historically low, over time (with a few peaks & dips in the meantime) I expect they'll increase. I dont really have time for looking at "the screens" (I sound like Joe Duffy) and trying to call the market the whole time, I'll leave that to the pros - and I'll get myself 43-47% ahead of the game with pension investment if thats what I want.
- Over the past 100yrs, stocks prices in the Western World have had an upward drift of 11% per annum on average. However, these numbers don't account for inflation & survivorship bias. Plus within that 100 yr timeframe, there are huge swings. If you bought the Dow at the peak in 1929, it took 26 yrs to get back to break even.
Any views on the specific comments I made above? (I realise it would take some time to get any type of diversification without getting crucified on charges, and investing in an eft or other managed fund etc. would take any fun out of it.)
- Managed fund performance is generally very poor. Though the industry just presents the best cases while the 'dog' funds are quietly closed.
So I want to dabble a bit and make a few calls, but not obsess about it.
- There is only one person you can trust with your money and that's yourself. It takes a lot of work. If you dont have the time the best place to put it is the post office though there is still the inflation risk plus govt consification over time through taxation.
- Managed fund performance is generally very poor. Though the industry just presents the best cases while the 'dog' funds are quietly closed.
Trader performance is also generally very poor, though the industry presents the big winners while the losers lose everything. Is there a difference between identifying the good/lucky managed funds and the good/lucky traders?
Long term 'buy & hold' is called a sucker play by the pro's Betsy.
If you must dabble in shares. CFd's or spreadbets are the way to go. The commissions charged by Irish brokers are outrageous.
thanks for the replies, good overviews.
To get back to the specific point,
I'm taking it that spreads are a proxy for active buy/sell where you're jumping in and out of shares on a weekly/monthly basis?
- are there standard 'close out' periods for spreads - i.e. is your account reviewed every month or 3 months and you settle up, or does either party have discretion as to when to strike & whether to continue?
I think Warren Buffett might have something to say about that.Long term 'buy & hold' is called a sucker play by the pro's Betsy.
If you're looking for l/t buy and hold on individual shares, then you're better off opting for conventional purchases through a discount brokerage, see the 'best buy' threads for Irish and international stockbrokers in the Financial Best Buys forum (Irish brokers, as has been remarked already, are way too expensive for the most part)
Spread betting would not be very cost effective for l/t purchases, afaik. It's best suited to active traders (but not day traders, who need tighter margins again).
The only cheap way to buy shares on a conventional purchase is to have a US account where you can buy 1000 shares for less than $10 commission with the online brokers. The cheapest one is IB.
Would IB buy in the Irish market? Are they still competitive at low value low volume (I'm sensing my 2 bit dabbling would be just a pest for anyone in the business)
I don't get all this cheap commission. OK so FTSE 100 maybe. I have a client who deals in smaller shares. He deals with me (1.85% >£10k then 0.6%) and a bucket shop, sorry discount XO broker.
He said to me some time ago, OK if you can deal cheaper than the other broker you can have the business. I think what he meant is if I could get inside the spread then he will pay my full comm. Who do you think did all the deals. Sometimes I (sorry my dealer) would save £200/£300 on a deal.
If you deal in reasonable size you should be able to negotiate comm with your broker, he will give you a good service (i.e. alerting you to price movements), good advice, hopefully, and good prices, usually. Always ask for concessionry 'closing' commission (min. comm. on 'closing') and possibly 'continuation' commission.
Don't expect brokers to fall over backwards for small (maybe limit) deals. Let's say the comm is £50. The broking firm usually take the first £10-£15 then split the rest 50-50. That gives £20 to the agent. What can you get for £20 these day
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