Solicitors cost for wills.

[MOB]

My husband wants to pool our assets. Must I do so?

Q&A: Second families can create additional tension when it comes to inheritance

www.irishtimes.com

This is a national newspaper in which the columnist states (to a lady who feels pressurised to agree a will with her current husband)

Finally, what happens if you do consent to drawing up your will alongside him with the same solicitor and in the terms your husband is encouraging – if only to preserve the peace? Could you change it yourself? ....There is nothing to stop you changing your will although I would suggest it is done through a solicitor of your choosing – especially if you have already made a legally valid will in the company of your husband.

This guidance is of course dangerously wrong (and in fairness is accompanied by a "Not A Lawyer" disclaimer) - -but the point I wish to make is not that newspaper columnists cannot be relied on for legal advice but that this relatively commonplace situation illustrates the sort of risk-strewn landscape which your solicitor is paid (and insured) to navigate on your behalf.

Doing this work properly take legal expertise and time.

It is not doing the public any favours to pretend that it can sustainably be done at €150 a pop.

 

[RetirementPlan]

Nothing free there so.

My experience of making a fee with a solicitor arranged through the credit union was entirely free. It is a straightforward estate, no prior marriages or children, no foreign assets, and it was entirely free, with no 'release fee'.

Some of the credit unions as part of the benefits of membership can arrange with a solicitor.

Need to read through the Will carefully though as I did see a relative having to pay a release fee when Probate was being processed. The solicitors had included a clause that a fee would need to be paid if they wanted to use their own solicitor. As far as I can recall it was slightly less than €200.

Seems strange that a solicitor could impose a legal fee on another party (the executor), that the executor hasn't actually agreed with or accepted. Is this legal in itself? Surely the will is a legal document and can't be 'held hostage' for further fees?

 

[T McGibney]

My experience of making a fee with a solicitor arranged through the credit union was entirely free. It is a straightforward estate, no prior marriages or children, no foreign assets, and it was entirely free, with no 'release fee'.

"Beware of whores who say they don't want money
The hell they don't
What they mean is they want more money
Much more"
- William S Burroughs

If the solicitor who arranged your 'free' will charges your relatives an extortionate figure to process your estate after your death, as happened to my relatives as per above, it will prove to be far from "entirely free".

Seems strange that a solicitor could impose a legal fee on another party (the executor), that the executor hasn't actually agreed with or accepted. Is this legal in itself? Surely the will is a legal document and can't be 'held hostage' for further fees?

No will can bind a solicitor or other service provider to do work for free, years if not decades into the future. If you're not willing to have your solicitor paid properly for the work of keeping your will on file and releasing it to your executor after your demise, you should not be entrusting that work to them in the first instance.

 

[Peanuts20]

A relative of my own once paid a token sum to get their will done with a local solicitor. They thought they had a great bargain. And when they died in old age, the same solicitor charged their family €60,000 to process their moderately-complicated estate, as the market value of an asset they owned at death had been sharply but temporarily inflated by Celtic Tiger era development potential.

Watch the pounds, the pennies will look after themselves.

I thought it was illegal to charge a percentage of the estate as your fees, therefore the Celtic Tiger inflation should be irrelevant (or perhaps this case predated those changes?)

Regardless, a solicitor cannot withhold a will without due cause and that is usually only because some fees are outstanding. So the Executor should shop around, get quotes and then, if not going with the original solicitor, get it transferred over.

 

[RetirementPlan]

"Beware of whores who say they don't want money
The hell they don't
What they mean is they want more money
Much more"
- William S Burroughs

If the solicitor who arranged your 'free' will charges your relatives an extortionate figure to process your estate after your death, as happened to my relatives as per above, it will prove to be far from "entirely free".

While that's true, I don't think the 'free will' offer is the issue here. Such extortionate fees may arise regardless of what was charged for the original will. I'd be expecting the executors to protect against such extortionate fees, regardless of how the will was made.

No will can bind a solicitor or other service provider to do work for free, years if not decades into the future. If you're not willing to have your solicitor paid properly for the work of keeping your will on file and releasing it to your executor after your demise, you should not be entrusting that work to them in the first instance.

If there are fees for keeping the will and releasing it, surely they should be charged up front, rather than holding the will hostage at a later stage? I have the will myself anyway, and have passed it to the executors, so it won't apply to me.

The idea of holding the will hostage just seems off to me.

 

[T McGibney]

I thought it was illegal to charge a percentage of the estate as your fees, therefore the Celtic Tiger inflation should be irrelevant (or perhaps this case predated those changes?)

You thought wrong.

Regardless, a solicitor cannot withhold a will without due cause and that is usually only because some fees are outstanding. So the Executor should shop around, get quotes and then, if not going with the original solicitor, get it transferred over.

You've missed the point. The question is whether or not the original solicitor should be allowed charge for retrieving the original will and transferring to the new one.

 

[MOB]

A will cannot be "held hostage" .

A solicitor can make an admin/storage/retrieval charge when retrieving and handing over wills and any other documents.

To be clear, the will cannot be held against payment. In practice it may feel like the executor has had to pay to get the will, but that is not the law. You (if you are an executor) are entitled to the will, and it cannot be retained to secure payment.

 

[T McGibney]

While that's true, I don't think the 'free will' offer is the issue here. Such extortionate fees may arise regardless of what was charged for the original will. I'd be expecting the executors to protect against such extortionate fees, regardless of how the will was made.

Do bear in mind that in the main, executors tend to be recently bereaved relatives and for many, spending time and energy shopping around between solicitors may be beyond them.

That's why it's very important for anyone making a will to choose their solicitor very, very carefully as the chances are that the one they choose will be the one that ends up processing the estate post-mortem. Blindly choosing a solicitor because they offered a free or cheap will drafting service is a recipe for trouble later on.

If there are fees for keeping the will and releasing it, surely they should be charged up front, rather than holding the will hostage at a later stage? I have the will myself anyway, and have passed it to the executors, so it won't apply to me.

The idea of holding the will hostage just seems off to me.

Yes, there is a strong case for charging upfront, and that's why I'm suspicious of free / cheap will drafting offers.

Your talk of holding wills hostage is overblown. Charging a fee of a few hundred euro for the sensitive and essential work involved in retrieving and forwarding a will is not in any way akin to demanding a ransom for the safe return of a kidnap victim.

 

[RetirementPlan]

A will cannot be "held hostage" .

A solicitor can make an admin/storage/retrieval charge when retrieving and handing over wills and any other documents.

To be clear, the will cannot be held against payment. In practice it may feel like the executor has had to pay to get the will, but that is not the law. You (if you are an executor) are entitled to the will, and it cannot be retained to secure payment.

That's what I was hoping for, tks.

Do bear in mind that in the main, executors tend to be recently bereaved relatives and for many, spending time and energy shopping around between solicitors may be beyond them.

That's why it's very important for anyone making a will to choose their solicitor very, very carefully as the chances are that the one they choose will be the one that ends up processing the estate post-mortem. Blindly choosing a solicitor because they offered a free or cheap will drafting service is a recipe for trouble later on.

For me, choosing executors was a balance between those who were close enough to be utterly trustworthy, while not immediate family who would indeed be struggling with bereavement. For me, it was a niece and a nephew who were the right balance. I'd be reasonably confident that no solicitor is going to walk over then, and also that they'll engage and pay for the professional help they need (or the estate needs).

 

[T McGibney]

While that's true, I don't think the 'free will' offer is the issue here. Such extortionate fees may arise regardless of what was charged for the original will. I'd be expecting the executors to protect against such extortionate fees, regardless of how the will was made.

Only noticed this bit now, and I can only reiterate my own relatives' experience when they were bled dry by a solicitor who had previously drafted a very cheap will for their parent. Had their parent gone instead to the most trustworthy person they could find, they would most certainly not have selected the person in question. Suffice to say that there was a very good reason why he was offering keen prices on will drafts.

In that case, the executors in conjunction with the family explored every avenue open to them to avoid paying the extortionate fee, but - as the solicitor knew from the outset - it was easier and safer for them to concede and pay up than to fight him legally. In short, it was a disaster.

 

[tom_12345]

I collected my Uncles will last year off his solicitor. I was doing probate myself. I was executioner & sole benefactor. The solicitor wanted to do the probate, house transfer to my name & he mentioned a land boundary issue with my Uncle's folio. He thought he was doing all 3. I told him I would call in & collect will, that I was doing probate myself. He wasnt too happy, still charged me €350 to collect the will, administration fee!

 

[phoenix53]

My husband and I are in the process of "redoing" our will. Our children are no longer minors and we want our will to reflect this as we no longer need guardians. also our original executors have got older and we want to release them from the possible burden of handling our will should we predecease them. We are thinking of naming a trusted nephew and niece as our new executors. We still haven't ruled out naming our son as executor but would like to try and remove as much possibility of immediate family rows as possible.
Can we go a solicitor, ask them to set up the will and then take the said will and keep it in safe storage ourselves? We would let the executors know where it was kept?

I also take it that once the new will is set up (with a new solicitor) the old will will automatically become null and void. It this correct?

Thank you.

 

[RetirementPlan]

My husband and I are in the process of "redoing" our will. Our children are no longer minors and we want our will to reflect this as we no longer need guardians. also our original executors have got older and we want to release them from the possible burden of handling our will should we predecease them. We are thinking of naming a trusted nephew and niece as our new executors. We still haven't ruled out naming our son as executor but would like to try and remove as much possibility of immediate family rows as possible.

I'm no legal expert, but

Can we go a solicitor, ask them to set up the will and then take the said will and keep it in safe storage ourselves? We would let the executors know where it was kept?

Yes - might be good to be clear about your requirements on this up front.

I also take it that once the new will is set up (with a new solicitor) the old will will automatically become null and void. It this correct?

Thank you.

Yes.

 

[phoenix53]

I'm no legal expert, but

Yes - might be good to be clear about your requirements on this up front.

Yes.

Thank you

 

[twofor1]

I collected my Uncles will last year off his solicitor. The solicitor wanted to do the probate, house transfer to my name .......

I had similar, the solicitor who held my relations will assumed he would be getting the job and quoted a legal fee of €14,000 for probate and house sale, the solicitor I got charged a legal fee of €4,000 for both. The pandemic slowed things but probate was granted, house sold, proceeds distributed within a year of my relation passing.