Sinn Féin wants to stop exodus of semi-professional and accidental landlords

Here is Eoin O'Broin on Morning Ireland


Starts to ask tenants what they think of the proposed rent cap of 2%
A landlord agrees with the 2%

Eoin O'Broin on the Bill to cap rent increases at 2%
It won't work as it does not apply to new rentals and places outside RPZs
Rents have risen outside RPZs in anticipation of them being included in RPZs
The whole state should be an RPZ
A 3 year ban on rent increases

We have to reduce rent - by giving one month's tax credit to every renter for three years.
It's not a rent freeze - rents just can't go up. They can go down.

We have to dramatically increase the supply of housing

the really mad stuff begins at 5.24
Interviewer: Would you agree to encourage more landlords to come into the market or to come back into the market ?
O'Broin:
The first thing I want to see is a dramatic increase in state investment
What we have also seen since 2017 is the loss of about 22,000 to 24,000 rental properties in the market as semi-professionals and accidentals have been leaving in a very disorderly fashion. I have been calling for 4 years on two government ministers to put in place a plan to halt that disorderly exit and again, no action from government.
Yes, we need to see increased investment but crucially that cannot be at the expense of renters being asked to pay ever increasing rents . We need to protect renters and increase the supply of not for profit rental and ensure that the landlords who are in the market stay and provide good quality service but at an affordable price with security of tenure for renters

We will table an amendment to ban rent increases which is what is needed

The terrible thing is that he sounds so reasonable.

The contradiction between hounding good landlords out of the market and saying he wants to see increased investment just doesn't trouble him at all.

Brendan

I am surprised at the numbers. 22,000 rental properties have been lost. I am not surprised that they have been lost, just surprised at the extent.

Brendan

I've moved my recent post to this thread, as it's a better fit!

Amusing article in today's Irish Times:

Newton Emerson: Rent control unlikely to defy laws of economics​

(it's behind the paywall).

Some bullets:-

Rent control is famously said to be the only thing that economists agree on, with all agreeing it does not work.

Swedish economist Assar Linbeck is often quoted: “In many cases rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city, except for bombing.”

Darragh O’Brien reportedly wants to introduce lifetime tenancies, another policy known to strongly deter all types of landlords, from the small-scale individual to the corporate investor. In Britain, even Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour Party only proposed secure tenancies of five years.

Given that rents are already really, really high, is it reasonable to say that landlords wouldn't really mind a rent freeze that much, but that they don't like other restrictions/rules, like lifetime tenancies, etc.?

As a landlord myself i agree that rent in this country is cripplingly high. Something needs to be done about it. Im not sure what though.

Rent is very high for newly let premises because landlords want to maximise their rent. If they don't charge the maximum rent, they won't be able to put it up in future.

But there are many tenants whose landlords did not push up rents in line with the market and now those landlords are stuck with low rents and devalued properties.

So they exit the market.

So the policy kicks out the decent landlords.

Brendan

ArthurMcB said:

As a landlord myself i agree that rent in this country is cripplingly high. Something needs to be done about it. Im not sure what though.

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There is a simple fix to this. Extend the rent a room scheme to the property sector. No tax due on a rent fig of say €10k any rent over that figure you pay tax on it all. The rent the tenant pays is reduced to a max of €10k. The tenant is better off and the landlord is no worse off. Both win, the issue is that the State want the landlord to house people and also want to control the service which is why so many landlords are leaving at a time when they should be encouraged to stay until alternative supply is available for those who need to rent.

Brendan Burgess said:

Rent is very high for newly let premises because landlords want to maximise their rent. If they don't charge the maximum rent, they won't be able to put it up in future.

But there are many tenants whose landlords did not push up rents in line with the market and now those landlords are stuck with low rents and devalued properties.

So they exit the market.

So the policy kicks out the decent landlords.

Brendan

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I've been renting the same house for 5 years. My landlord reduced the rent after 8 months without being asked and hasn't put it up since. That said I'm a fantastic tenant. If there were medals being given out I'd win one.

Purple said:

I've been renting the same house for 5 years. My landlord reduced the rent after 8 months without being asked and hasn't put it up since. That said I'm a fantastic tenant. If there were medals being given out I'd win one.

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Don't know if you're serious or not Purple, but bad tenants are getting to be more and more common in the market. If there was some mechanism whereby this wasn't the case, you would certainly get more people treating the letting of property as a business, therefore more getting into it. There's a grouping of people in society today who don't want to pay for anything, do anything to get the house/apt and after a month the unfortunate property owner is left in the lurch. No rent paid, property treated in a terrible way and plenty of organisations to back them. Fair play to you if you're one of the good tenants out there, and there's plenty. However, something really needs to be done about the non payers who respect nothing and shout very loud indeed. Listening to radio and tv, plus the press, every single day, one would think the so called landlord is the problem. They're not you know, and no one's listening. If St Vincent De Paul or the Peter McVerry trust, to name only 2, became a political party tomorrow, they would have people elected all over the place. What does that say about everything? Abba were right to make a comeback, there's always a place for Gimme Gimme, Gimme, and they'll make a fortune (Abba that is)

noproblem said:

Don't know if you're serious or not Purple

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I am.

noproblem said:

There's a grouping of people in society today who don't want to pay for anything, do anything

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They've always been around.

noproblem said:

Fair play to you if you're one of the good tenants out there

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Thanks.

noproblem said:

If St Vincent De Paul or the Peter McVerry trust, to name only 2, became a political party tomorrow, they would have people elected all over the place. What does that say about everything?

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It says people are idiots for giving them money and the same idiots would give them votes. I'd burn money before I gave it to the VDP. McVerry Trust does some good work but it's misdirected ideology driven practices also do a lot of harm. It's kind of a good microcosm for the whole housing/homelessness industry.

Brendan Burgess said:

The terrible thing is that he sounds so reasonable.

The contradiction between hounding good landlords out of the market and saying he wants to see increased investment just doesn't trouble him at all.

Brendan

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Now, I'm no fan of the Shinners, I'm still awaiting an apology for their military wing blowing up my desk in Bishopsgate many years ago and it'll be a cold day in hell before I'd vote for them. But...in fairness to him, he is speaking about increased state investment, in effect a move away from private landlords seeking to make a profit and perhaps a return to old style "council housing".

Peanuts20 said:

But...in fairness to him, he is speaking about increased state investment, in effect a move away from private landlords seeking to make a profit and perhaps a return to old style "council housing".

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But.....wouldn't you say more of both would be a good thing?

There is plenty of demand for both social housing and private rented housing, and they're usually not the same people looking.

Hi Peanuts

No, that is not what he is saying. He wants the taxpayer to pay for more council housing, but also

What we have also seen since 2017 is the loss of about 22,000 to 24,000 rental properties in the market as semi-professionals and accidentals have been leaving in a very disorderly fashion. I have been calling for 4 years on two government ministers to put in place a plan to halt that disorderly exit and again, no action from government.

Brendan Burgess said:

Hi Peanuts

No, that is not what he is saying. He wants the taxpayer to pay for more council housing, but also

What we have also seen since 2017 is the loss of about 22,000 to 24,000 rental properties in the market as semi-professionals and accidentals have been leaving in a very disorderly fashion. I have been calling for 4 years on two government ministers to put in place a plan to halt that disorderly exit and again, no action from government.

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I don't see a 2 pronged approach as a contradiction. He is correct in what he saying in that there is no plan to halt that exit. Having said that, most accidental landlords want out anyway as they don't need the hassle and SF's comments on rent freezes and caps do nothing to encourage the professionals to stay in. Maybe the question should have been asked of him, what's the SF plan to retain them?. As NoregretsCoyote rightly said, there is a need for both.

Harsh and cold reality for landlords, tennants and taxpayers is that the current mess is not working

Aren't the gov actually doing a lot of action for this exodus issue? Just that instead of slowing it down like the like of SD are asking for, the gov policy seems to be to encourage any small time landlords to sell up and get out of the market.
Then again the recent tax on buying >10 properties could also be seen as a way to stop further large landlords too, so maybe they don't actually want landlords at all?

ryaner said:

Aren't the gov actually doing a lot of action for this exodus issue? Just that instead of slowing it down like the like of SD are asking for, the gov policy seems to be to encourage any small time landlords to sell up and get out of the market.
Then again the recent tax on buying >10 properties could also be seen as a way to stop further large landlords too, so maybe they don't actually want landlords at all?

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What they actually do want is votes. In terms of a long term housing strategy, I have no idea what they want at this stage other than to act when social media shouts.

Rasputin said:

What they actually do want is votes. In terms of a long term housing strategy, I have no idea what they want at this stage other than to act when social media shouts.

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Exactly. Hanging grimly on until their term of offfice is up; at which point they'll be reasonably happy to sit on the opposition benches enjoying the sight of Sinn Fein in government struggling to deliver on its countless housing (and health service) promises.

Brendan Burgess said:

Hi Peanuts

No, that is not what he is saying. He wants the taxpayer to pay for more council housing, but also

What we have also seen since 2017 is the loss of about 22,000 to 24,000 rental properties in the market as semi-professionals and accidentals have been leaving in a very disorderly fashion. I have been calling for 4 years on two government ministers to put in place a plan to halt that disorderly exit and again, no action from government.

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That sounds like he wants to prevent any existing landlords from leaving.

Brendan Burgess said:

I am surprised at the numbers. 22,000 rental properties have been lost. I am not surprised that they have been lost, just surprised at the extent.

Brendan

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In that Housing for All document there is an objective to examine measures to encourage landlords back into the sector, l wonder what that might entail.... maybe time limited tax breaks for smaller landlords till the worst of the supply crisis is over....