Should the Campaign put up candidates in the General Election?

When listing out all the options we had to highlight the issue, this was one of them. It was pretty clearly rejected for a number of reasons. I still think it's a non-runner, but given that we have so few options, we should review it again.

It's not a big enough issue to get elected on.
Even if elected, what could one or two TDs do?
If a few TDs could solve the problem, then Michael McGrath would be capable of solving the problem as he has been on the case since the start.

So, really, we would put forward candidates only to highlight the issue. And the message would get lost in all the noise around the General Election.

On the other hand, someone did a calculation. 300,000 non-tracker mortgages. That is probably around 500,000 votes. With 43 constituencies, that is 10,000 or so voters per constituency.

Would people who are not prepared to protest because they are middle class and working be prepared to vote for a candidate who presses for change in this area? My guess is that they wouldn't. They would regard it as a wasted vote because they wouldn't get elected or even if they did get elected what could they do?

Brendan Burgess said:

My guess is that they wouldn't. They would regard it as a wasted vote because they wouldn't get elected or even if they did get elected what could they do?

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Why would it be a wasted vote ? We have a system that would allow their second choice to be passed on to someone else if/when the are eliminated.

When one reads of the opinion polls telling us that over 30% of people are prepared to vote again for FG it might seem the answer is No. However, opinion polls could once again prove to be "probably" well off the mark in which case and taking your figures into a/c there should be a candidate or two elected, but I doubt it breaks down into the numbers you mention per constituency. It's interesting though that you feel the middle class might not vote for one of them. If my son or daughter or family member was one of the non trackers and feeling hard done by and was alert enough to mobilise people and family I'd imagine a very, very, positive result.

Brendan Burgess said:

They would regard it as a wasted vote

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elcato said:

Why would it be a wasted vote ?

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It wouldn't be a wasted vote, because of our transferable vote system. However, most people don't understand that and would regard it as a wasted vote.

Brendan

I think its a big issue for a lot of people and if candidates make it clear they are going to at least try and resolve the issue. Then that candidate would get my vote. There is the a lot of money at stake here.

Yes put candidates forward.

Put candidate forward I'd say. Not a waste of time.

If people who are non tracker are in a constituency where a candidate is running vote for fg and lab and not an svr candidate then they're obviously not bothered about the issue and are happy to keep paying the excess rates, the pain isn't great enuf for them. Wait until the rate cycle is upward again then they'll moan. Yes definitely put up candidates it's an issue that has slipped down the pecking order drastically. As you say Brendan about the PRSTV electoral system it isn't a wasted vote. A wasted vote is a vote for FG and LAB who have done nothing for us. Anyone running in my area or anyone near me in North dublin ill be glad to canvass for them as often as possible during the campaign.

Wasted effort. Token gesture. Initial newspaper inches the first day and then forgotten about. Canvassing no the doorsteps will not raise awareness in any real way, and the candidate will not have enough helpers to put together a funded-campaign quickly enough.

Put a candidate forward. I think it could be worthwhile even if the candidate isn't elected.

I am afraid of what will happen to the SVR's if any of the banks in state ownership are sold.

I think running a few canidates while it will generate publicity nothing concrete will be achieved.Perhaps the campaign should focus on supporting parties that will commit to our cause.Michael mcGrath gave us great help/support so I will vote FF.
Is there sufficient numbers interested in a protest?While I never protested
I would do so if we can get sufficient numbers.

I would certainly vote for such a candidate - it's a major issue for me. It is the first question I intend asking to any politician who comes to my door! That is if I ever meet one! I've had many leaflets in my door all in the daytime when I'm at work, none of which mentioned SVR mortgage rates but haven't met anyond in person yet.

I think it could only be done on broader consumer issues. I would vote for a candidate standing on fair mortgage rates, but I would need to know their other policies.

It doesn't really link that well with other issues.

For example, I would argue that we need to change the laws to make it easier for the banks to repossess the 20,000 who are paying nothing and not engaging. That is necessary to remove the banks' excuse that mortgage lending in Ireland is unsecured. But at the same time, I want to see the borrowers who are paying at least the interest, fully protected.

On broader consumer issues, the political and media reaction is often knee jerk. I don't want to pay an additional levy on my house insurance for people living in estates called "Lake view" or "River Valley" or "bog meadow". If they built houses against the advice of planners, I don't want to pay to have them relocated.

Likewise I don't like paying higher car insurance to pay the claims relating to Quinn Insurance and PMPA.

As a non-smoker , I don't see why I should pay the same price for my health insurance as a smoker.

Broadening it out from the consumer issue, are there other areas which might be attractive to mortgage holders?

It's not clear at all to me why we should have some of the highest non-contributory social welfare rates and low contributory social welfare rates. I think that people who have worked for years and paid PRSI for years should have a higher pensions than those who have been on welfare all their lives.

Why do home owners pay Local Property Tax irrespective of their income while those in social housing don't pay any LPT, irrespective of their income?

Could there be a sort of Home owners/Responsible Citizens grouping?

Brendan

The problem I see is that I couldn't vote for such a candidate unless they were in my electoral area.

A charismatic candidate with lots of media association in a middle class Dublin area might well succeed.

Marion

Sounded like your electoral speech there Brendan

Marion said:

A charismatic candidate with lots of media association in a middle class Dublin area might well succeed.

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PadKiss said:

Sounded like your electoral speech there Brendan

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Padraic

When Marion posted that I said to myself "Well I can't think of anyone who fits that description?"

How did I not think of you? You would be perfect. Are you in Dublin South( whatever it is called now)? It always returns an outsider - The first Green Party TD, Two quotas for Ann Colley, and Shane Ross and Peter ?? in the last election. You would be a dead cert.

I recall Paul Summers running in the Locals in DSE, a fairly well-heeled leafy constituency - didn't do well. Despite being a 1/2 media personality giving various pieces to the likes of Newtalk at the time, didn't help him.

Ah I don't think so but nice to know I would have got your number 1 Brendan

Calm down lads. Who has the patience to be able to bite their tongue when they want to say what they really feel amongst us ? Who has the time to listen to the 60% of idiots out there on their doorsteps for four weeks non-stop ? Who can actually be aware that the person talking to you in the street or the pub could in fact have a tape recorder in their ass pocket ? Let's face it, we are pretty straight talkers here and unless we start accepting back the nicy-wicy people we encouraged to go to therethere.com, we would be seriously struggling to get someone suitable. Sad but true.

OK, another item for the platform - car insurance and insurance generally.

Stop blaming the insurance companies.
Remove the courts system from any involvement in assessing damages. Let the Injuries Board decide all claims for personal injuries.

If there is a dispute over liability, certainly allow it to go to court.

Come down really hard on people driving without insurance. Confiscate the car. Impose a massive fine. Fund the Motor Insurers' Bureau from the general tax purse and not just those motorists who do pay their insurance.

Brendan

If people were given an incentive to report "very intentional" uninsured drivers, would they do it?