Key Post Should I seek tax advice from Revenue?

Brendan Burgess said:

I think that in Revenue Audits, they are trying to maximise their take. In most cases, they suspect that there is something hidden.

But I doubt if that is true for Revenue generally. They are clearly not going to give tax planning advice. But I don't think that they would intentionally mislead taxpayers to increase the tax yield.

Brendan

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Your conclusion illustrates my point Brendan. The shakedowns to which I refer are very common.

T McGibney said:

Your conclusion illustrates my point Brendan. The shakedowns to which I refer are very common.

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I'm not clear on what you mean by shakedowns; do you mean Revenue staff trying to extract money from people, that isn't due? Have you any examples you can share?

torblednam said:

I'm not clear on what you mean by shakedowns; do you mean Revenue staff trying to extract money from people, that isn't due?

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Yes.

torblednam said:

Have you any examples you can share?

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For obvious reasons, I have to be very careful here, but a particularly glaring one involved an individual Revenue inspector aggressively trying (unlawfully and thankfully in vain) to reopen the historic tax affairs of a person who had died tragically some 4 years previously, with a view to pursuing the beneficiaries of their estate for additional alleged tax liabilities on foot of his contrived and speculative calculations.

Another was a tax inspector (again unlawfully) threatening a taxpayer with a second tax audit - less than a year after a tax audit was concluded by another tax inspector (who had in the meantime retired) with neither additional liabilities arising nor accusation of wrongdoing against the taxpayer - accompanied by a suggestion that they propose a "voluntary payment" to Revenue "to make the problem go away".

In both cases, the people concerned were too scared to pursue formal complaints against the inspectors in question.

torblednam said:

I'm not clear on what you mean by shakedowns; do you mean Revenue staff trying to extract money from people, that isn't due? Have you any examples you can share?

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torblednam,

I could give you any number of examples. I have seen cases where an individual clearly qualifies for something like Entrepreneur Relief or Retirement Relief, yet a Revenue official will be staunch in his or her bizarre view that the legislation wasn’t “designed” to cover such scenarios.

I have seen Revenue use the threat of publication to force taxpayers into paying more tax than should be due.

I genuinely believe that anyone who goes to Revenue for advice needs their head examined.

Gordon Gekko said:

I genuinely believe that anyone who goes to Revenue for advice needs their head examined.

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Hi Gordon

If someone gets a formal response in My Enquiries giving them a favourable answer, they should be able to rely on that.

If they get an unfavourable reply, they might go to a tax advisor for a second opinion.

I still think that the senior guys in Revenue understand the tax system and give honest and fair replies. While agreeing that the Revenue Audit staff do try to shake people down.

Brendan

I've found Revenue reasonably helpful with queries; the difficultly is finding the right person who knows what you are talking about in the first place.

T McGibney said:

This is literally hilarious. You have clearly never sat through an adversarial Revenue Audit nor witnessed the attempted and actual shakedowns that often follow them.

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You find a statement that's absolutely correct hilarious?

llgon said:

You find a statement that's absolutely correct hilarious?

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Not as hilarious as your attempted rebuttal

Gordon Gekko said:

The fact that anyone could think that they’ll get independent or high quality advice from Revenue is laughable.

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I didn't suggest it was either independent or high quality. The OP said it was an appalling idea to ask Revenue for advice. I disagree: if you want to know how they will treat a particular issue, surely the obvious thing to do is ask them? You mightn’t like what you hear, but you can then take it further. If you find what they say is OK and you have it in writing, you are in a much stronger position if they subsequently try to query it.

I'm not suggesting you try and use them as a general tax planning service: they are not this, and have no incentive to act as such. Maybe we're at cross purposes: if, for example, your query is "how do I minimise my tax liability in gifting a house to someone?", that would indeed be laughable to expect them to help.

However, I keep seeing queries on this site along the lines of "if I do X, will I be liable for tax Y?", to which I'd suggest the simple thing to do is ask. Some people however seem to think that Revenue are either unapproachable, unhelpful or something bad will automatically happen if you engage with them in any way. This has not been my experience of dealing with them.

newtothis said:

However, I keep seeing queries on this site along the lines of "if I do X, will I be liable for tax Y?", to which I'd suggest the simple thing to do is ask.

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The problem is that a lot of tax questions don't lend themselves to straightforward yes or no answers. If a given query can't be resolved by relatively straightforward googling it's unlikely that a phone call to Revenue will give you a definitive answer either, unless you're lucky.

Anybody who knows me is aware that I nearly always support the Civil/Public Service personnel in everything. It's the Trade Union Rep. in me. However, many people working in Revenue are inquisitive by nature and dare I say some for some reason or other are zealous chasing income. This zealot nature can lead to over the top approach especially to those vulnerable. For example my parents were of the opinion "Of course it must be true, the Revenue Commissioners Official informed me . . ." Furthermore, those in Revenue are human and mistakes can be made.

People in Revenue are aware that many supply false information to them. Many understate their income and it is up to Revenue to separate the chaff from the wheat. Sometimes, they keep the chaff. Afterall, they are human.

I reckon career advancement can be enhanced in Revenue by some collecting taxes that are not due. Ask any good financial advisor, if you don't believe me. There is an appeals process for those who feel they have been over taxed. If all in Revenue was beyond approach why is there a Tax Appeals Process? Ask yourself how long does the Appeals Process take? (Would you believe two years?). It is obvious there must be many people in Ireland not happy with their tax payable assessments.

The Ombudsman is also used by people who believe they have been short-changed by Revenue.

Asking Revenue for favourable tax advice is like on the Somme having a British Army Officer asking his German counterpart, if it is OK to mount a surprise attack tomorrow at dawn. Use a Financial Advisor to act for you. It costs, but it is the best way forward.