Moneymakeover Sell former home while living rent free with dad?

It’s not really rent free if you are covering repairs and all his bills.

Have a look at the monthly costs for the household and see how it is divided up.

Where is his income going? If he’s saving it then bear in mind this will be part of any assessment of he needs nursing home care. So you covering his costs now is in fact setting aside funds for his future care indirectly. Or what is he doing with his money? Does he intend to leave it to a sibling? It’s his business of course but maybe some should go on the house he owns, and may live in for another 15 years…

It is likely that you are being heavily subsidised but mentally it might be helpful to see that your dad is gaining something.

If your dad needed long term care where would you stand? The fair deal only takes a % of the value of the house and they don’t collect immediately. However I am pretty sure all your dads income will go on any care needed so if he is covering a decent % of the household costs now you’ll need to factor that in if he goes to a nursing home. Plus his savings. I know you don’t envisage that. But do the maths!

However he’s 80 and you haven’t mentioned any health issues (I think ) so maybe that’s all irrelevant. But his demise and your inheritance are a feature of your long term plans so have a think about that.

Also worth thinking about, as happened recently in my own family, you may need to curtail your working hours to mind him at home. A hidden cost of senior care is someone working part time for a few years. My own sis is doing that it it will massively impact on her eventual pension. But without her we’d need to consider live in help at a cost or a nursing home. Has your dad got savings or income to cover help if you need to work?

Brendan Burgess said:

Focus on paying down your expensive debt

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This.

From my reading of your posts there's a million thoughts pushing and jostling in your head & it's paralysing.

PIck one thing (debt clearance) and throw all your energy into that.

Read up on the debt snowball; it works.

Lots of different angles on this but the main one to me is that you are living in a house that you and your family don't want to be in while having a house that you can see yourself happily living in for the future. That's a very simple goal and its just a case of building toward that. You can't just move back at the minute due to debts etc but if it was me I'd be looking at setting a three or five year plan to clear debts and get yourself into a situation where you can clean up your loans and look at it again.
Start with looking at your ins and outs with a fine toothcomb, make a budget, and attack the debts starting with the one with the highest interest rate. You'll be amazed at how your spending habits change when you have a monthly target and track it. It's not fun but it'll be worth it in terms of chipping away and getting your finances under control. In the meantime remember you're chipping away at your mortgage every month to the tune of €500.
The end goal if you can manage it will be to have reasonable income, a house that you're happy in with a manageable mortgage, and the safety blanket of your dad's house which should either clear your mortgage or proovide you with a rental income going forward (with some investment).
It's then a case of how aggressive you can be with your outgoings and looking at ways to increase your income as to whether it will be two, five, ten years etc until you can get to where you want to be

Thank you all so much for your replies. I will try to answer all questions:
1.The house where we are with my dad isn't falling down. It's in good enough nick for it's age. Built in the 1970's and due to this fact there are somethings that will need to be done over the next few years. Windows are 30+ years old and roof to be re-slated. Also I'd say wiring and plumbing will need to be looked at as they are in situ since construction. We have painted, changed flooring and tiles since we moved in and keep up general maintenance.
2. House is allready willed to me. I have spoken to dad re signing the house over now but I don't really want to put him in that position, although he said it was fine. I also know that if it was signed over now and dad needed nursing home care in the next 5 years the house would still be used as an asset. It would cost money also which is a factor. Solicitors fee, stamp duty and auctioneer fee. I would be under the tax threshold of €400,000.
3. My dad is 87 and in great health. I don't imagine he will need nursing home care but then I don't have a crystal ball. My mam had a very complicated illness and we managed to mind her at home until her death although it was a really tough time. I would like to do the same for my dad if I'm able. I work remotely so I'm here all the time which helps. I have 2 siblings - 1 of which does not speak to 2 of us. I have spoken to my sibling and she feels if it was a thing that dad need nursing home care we would split the cost so no charge going to my inheritance (the house) as they have allready received their inheritance. I don't know my other siblings thoughts on this but I'm guessing we would be on our own.
4. We have health insurance so my husbands surgery will be covered. It's more the recuperation and maybe needing to change careers that worries us.
5. My dad appears controlling and he is but it's more a concern in this case. In his day if you had property you were set for life. That would be his issue with us selling. I just don't want any agro or arguments if we sold and he found out and there would be arguments. Yes I do realise I'm a grown woman. I just want to keep the living situation nice for everyone.
6. Our tenant has told us they are looking to buy a house and would we be interested in selling. That is what has prompted my question. We seem to bury our heads and muddle along and every few years I do an oh God review of things and panic. We're not getting any younger and I'm terrified of being poor when older. It's good to hear that we can reset rent after March. I didn't realise that was law yet. I wouldn't imagine they'll be able to buy before then giving the houses available to buy locally. I will then reset rent. A 2 bed 2 bath in the last few weeks is gettng €1600 pm. I think we should aim for €1800 pm as we have a 4 bed, 3 bath detached, walking distance of town.
7. We pay all the bills in my dad's house which I feel is only fair as we don't pay rent. If I'm honest I think dad has a great life and I would love to be in his position when I'm older. He lives in a warm, clean home where all his needs are looked after (meals, prescriptions, appointments and any life admin). His money is his own. He has a great social life though. He would have given the majority of his money to my sibling who is willed the money a few years ago. The only downside for my dads living situation is he has to put up with us. It's just a feeling I get sometimes of being stifled and it's even worse for my husband. It can also feel like you're a failure to be living at home at this age. I realise in the current climate in ireland we are in a privileged position in relation to housing but I'm just being honest. With 2 growing kids the house is getting small but we have allready discussed and rejected renovations ourselves. We wouldn't be able to fund them from short term debt as the repayments would be crippling and the property isn't signed over to me so no mortgage option. Not that I want another mortgage/short term debt, I will avoid anymore debt at all costs.

I hope this has answered any questions. I'm very grateful for your responses and for taking the time I really appreciate it.

I think you’re already on the way to figuring things out. Writing it all out helps.

Just a word of warning… we have been checking out nursing homes for my parents, just in case…. €2k a week. I don’t know what your dad’s income is but if you and a sibling plan to cover nursing home costs that’s a steep bill. However it seems like a long way off and may never happen. But you’ve already haven’t got €1k a week to spare.

But you’ve already got €6k on a cc… that needs to be tackled and as quickly as possible, the min payments on that must be horrendous.

I think your dad’s situation for an 87 year old having family with him is not a bad deal.

stayorgo said:

5. My dad appears controlling and he is but it's more a concern in this case. In his day if you had property you were set for life. That would be his issue with us selling. I just don't want any agro or arguments if we sold and he found out and there would be arguments.

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Sounds like controlling or even coercive behaviour to me to be honest.

stayorgo said:

We seem to bury our heads and muddle along and every few years I do an oh God review of things and panic.

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Have you started doing the honest forensic analysis of your incomings and outgoings yet as suggested several times by several posters? That's a critical first step in making realistic short, medium and longer term plans in my opinion. See here for some suggestions on how to do this.

Ps it’s not a free house, you may not be paying your dad rent but maintenance, bills etc are 1/4 his.

If he has all his living expenses covered and keeps his pension for your sibling and his social life then he’s getting a good deal so don’t feel too beholden to him.

stayorgo said:

5. My dad appears controlling and he is but it's more a concern in this case. In his day if you had property you were set for life. That would be his issue with us selling. I just don't want any agro or arguments if we sold and he found out and there would be arguments. Yes I do realise I'm a grown woman. I just want to keep the living situation nice for everyone.

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Might have been asked already, but have you ever considered asking your father what he would think of you selling up? Maybe he’d support it, he knows you’ve been through tough times or you wouldn’t be living with him, maybe he’d actually be happy to have you committed to his care for the rest of his days? Obviously I don’t know the man, but it does sound like you’re a bit afraid of his reaction to a committed plan to sell. But if you’re just asking his opinion and involving him in the decision, as opposed to telling him your plan, you might find that your fears are misplaced?