Health Insurance Self insuring private healthcare

If you go privately to a specialist who tells you that you need a new knee, it does not speed up the actual treatment.

People with cancer or heart conditions get treated quickly once they get a diagnosis. So maybe a private diagnosis does speed up treatment? However, I understand that most people with suspected cancer or heart problems, get diagnosed and treated quickly.

Brendan
 
The really expensive treatments such as cancer and heart are treated very well in the public health system.
I have to agree with this from personal experience. We have never had private health insurance. My husband was diagnosed with bowel cancer in late 2013. His diagnosis and operation could not have been quicker. I cannot fault his treatment since. There is an occasional administrative slip up, but the medical staff are fantastic.
Compared with tales I hear from family in the UK, waiting 3 weeks to get an appointment with a GP being common, our system beats the NHS hands down. Those of us who want to pay can do so, but the public system works well (for the most part).
 
Compared with tales I hear from family in the UK, waiting 3 weeks to get an appointment with a GP being common

This is the bit which astonishes me. I have asked my friends in the UK, who would be relatively well off, what they do if they are sick. They all make appointments with an NHS doctor. I have no idea why they don't pay for it themselves.
 
I suspect if "free GP care for all" comes in here, then our waiting times will increase accordingly to match the NHS.
 
But I thought if you paid for the the diagnosis privately you still had to go back on the public list for treatment so could still be a bit of delay getting the treatment?

This was my understanding also - I was under the impression that they had changed the system to prevent this happening e.g. paying privately for an MRI for example (which is relatively affordable) and then "jumping" the queue to a later point in the process. I have heard anecdotally that such people still have very long waits for treatment.
 
Having been both a doctor and patient in both private and public hospitals in Ireland, I would not get rid of my health insurance.

I'm not surprised that a consultant may say they don't have VHI, are happy to use only the public system, etc., because when you have direct access to the system and all of your friends and colleagues are doctors and nurses you are guaranteed a very good service!

Staff in Irish hospitals are very well trained by international standards. I have worked abroad in Europe and USA and Irish-trained doctors and nurses are highly regarded. Consultants in Ireland tend to train longer than anywhere in the world and are much more likely to have done a PhD or other research degree. We have a very high density of consultants who have trained abroad at big international centres in London, New York, etc. so your local consultant in Ballygobackwards General Hospital is quite likely to have done a fellowship in one of the best hospitals in the world. Most people are not aware that we have such a calibre of consultants here - or at least we did until the latest contracts came in, but that's another issue entirely.

In public hospitals, health insurance gives you preferential access to better accommodation but much more importantly it gives you better access to procedures. If a consultant has a theatre list and can perform 10 procedures on that list, their contract may allow them to do 2+ private cases on that list of 10. Straight away the public patients who have private insurance have a 25% better chance of getting a spot than someone without insurance. What is worse, if the consultant decided to do 10 public cases, they would be taken to task by management. Why? Because the hospital can charge the insurance company a large sum for each private case done - so public hospitals have a perverse incentive to treat private patients.

I regularly hear "It's a great system once you're in, the staff are great, etc." but that is not what a health system should be like. Public and private systems should be totally separate and everyone should be either be covered by an insurance system like in the Netherlands or from the public purse like in the UK. That way everyone has equal access at the point of care and your job or your daddy's bank balance or any other privilege won't affect your care. Having worked in the NHS and having been a patient in that system, it is overall much fairer and better value for money than the Irish one.

Edit: We still have a funny attitude that public patients should be somehow grateful for whatever they can get "Oh you were lucky to only wait 6 months" etc. That is not how it works in private hospitals. There is a fine balance between being engaged and being unreasonable, but public patients really do need to start demanding hospital CEOs and TDs to give them the resources that they deserve. Doctor and nurses unions and training bodies actually spend a lot of time advocating for patients, but what we really need is a well organised public protest like the water charges. I think the public don't truly realise how badly they are being treated (pardon the pun).
 
Last edited:
In public hospitals, health insurance gives you...better access to procedures. If a consultant has a theatre list and can perform 10 procedures on that list, their contract may allow them to do 2+ private cases on that list of 10. Straight away the public patients who have private insurance have a 25% better chance of getting a spot than someone without insurance.

Hi arbitron

This used to be the system, but it's not supposed to happen any more. There is supposed to be one queue and earlier private diagnosis is not suppose to allow you to join that queue any earlier.

I do agree with you that private and public hospitals should be totally separated, so that the perception that private patients get quicker treatment in a public hospital should be killed off.

Brendan
 
Hi arbitron

This used to be the system, but it's not supposed to happen any more. There is supposed to be one queue and earlier private diagnosis is not suppose to allow you to join that queue any earlier.

I do agree with you that private and public hospitals should be totally separated, so that the perception that private patients get quicker treatment in a public hospital should be killed off.

Brendan

Earlier private diagnosis can still speed things up. Let's say you have cancer diagnosed in St. Moneybags Private Clinic but you don't have the insurance to cover the treatment. You then rock up to a public emergency dept with your scans and a letter from your GP stating your condition. They can't exactly say "Sorry, you were diagnosed privately so we're not going to remove that massive tumour, off you go to the back of the queue" If anything, you've saved the public hospital some money by organising your own consultant appointment and getting your expensive scans and tests at your own expense. This is effectively a fast-track into the public system. To be honest, I don't blame anyone for doing it as the public waiting lists are unacceptable.

There is (in theory at least) a single triaging queue for emergency departments and for outpatient clinics, based on clinical need, but there are still 2 queues for surgical procedures. If you are in a surgical clinic and you say you are desperate to have your procedure, the next thing you are asked is "Do you have VHI?" It's not really because the surgeon is being a greedy guts, it's because the hospital expects them to have a minimum number of private cases, and if you have VHI then the surgeon can get you in quicker by putting you in a private slot.
 
Back
Top