Ryanair to fine disruptive passengers?

Brendan Burgess

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Ryanair to fine disruptive passengers €500

Ryanair has introduced a €500 fine for disruptive passengers whose "unruly" behaviour results in them being taken off the plane.
www.rte.ie

I fully agree with what they are trying to do.

But can a private company actually fine people? I presumed that was reserved for state organs such as the Garda or the Courts.

Brendan

Disclosure: I am a shareholder in Ryanair
 
Life bans are unenforceable and breach natural justice (even the most vile killers and rapists get time-limited sentences with appropriate review and parole provisions built-in), and as such wouldn't stand a chance if/when subjected to legal challenge.
 
A 10 year ban mightn't even survive legal challenge, particularly in a case taken by a customer who claims that a ban unduly affects them owing to their location or personal circumstances.

Such bans are in any event easily circumvented if the banned individual acquires a new payment card and passport.
 
A "fine" is unefforcable and were they to sue for it, they would have to prove loss. They could easily threaten to say that it is €500 now, if you don't pay in a month it is €1k and on from there and try and intimidate people into paying but unless the get a court order, hard to see how they could enforce it.

Alternatively, they could put a flag on their database that if you go to book a flight in the future, there is an additional charge but it would be easy to get around that
 
Brendan Burgess said:
But can a private company actually fine people? I presumed that was reserved for state organs such as the Garda or the Courts.
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I don't think they can. The most they can do is impose a $500 surcharge on the offending passenger's next booking with Ryanair (and even that is dependent on being able to track them through the booking system. But they do all passenger's passport numbers, don't they?)

On edit: I see Peanuts already said this while I was typing.
T McGibney said:
Taxis routinely fine customers who soil their vehicles.
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Taxi charges are legislated. And the "soiling charge" is one of the charges set out in the law. (I think.) Ryanair doesn't have a parallel mechanism for the charges it want to impose.
 
A lot simpler than that: "Pay us €500 within 12 hours or we make a criminal complaint to the police and reserve the right to sue you for the full costs of your disruption".
 
T McGibney said:
A lot simpler than that: "Pay us €500 within 12 hours or we make a criminal complaint to the police and reserve the right to sue you for the full costs of your disruption".
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Ooh, blackmail!

I like it. But criminal prosecutions for misbehaviour on aircraft are rare, and behaviour which is merely "unruly" isn't necessarily a crime. I think what you're doing has to rise to the level of a threat to safety before you have to worry about prosecution; spoiling other passengers' experience of the flight is probably not enough. And leaving aside whether you could be prosecuted for it, the observed fact is that people very rarely are, which might suggest that the guards are not keen on running these cases, which might make people think that the threat of reporting the matter to the guards is not that serious a concern.

But I think you're on to something with the hotel fine for smoking in the room. Not being a smoker, I've never had direct experience of this, but I assume it works something like this: your contract with the hotel includes a clause that says something like "I won't smoke in a non-smoking room and, if I do, I understand that I incur an additional charge of €X for the purification, cleansing and exorcism of the defiled room". The hotel typically doesn't know until after you've left that you smoked in the room, but they have your credit card details so they charge your card.

Similarly with car hire; you may have left the premises before they observe that the car you just returned is missing its hubcaps and requires panel work on both sides; they charge the excess not covered by insurance to your credit card. (You authorised them to do this in that document you signed without reading when you picked up the car.)

In both cases, they have your money; it's up to you to dispute the charge.

I guess Ryanair could adopt that kind of collection mechanism.
 
T McGibney said:
Really? Hotels routinely fine customers who smoke in their rooms. Taxis routinely fine customers who soil their vehicle
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There is a statutory charge laid down in law by the NTA for passengers who soil a taxi. It's in the Taxi Regulation (Maximum Fares) Order 2022 (S.I No. 293 of 2022).

Hotels can add on a surcharge when you are checking out if they believe you were smoking because they have your credit card details. However that has no statutory basis and is not a fine and does not meet the legal definition of a fine.

What Ryanair are threatening here is a surcharge. I have no issue with it, to me it should be far higher but it is not a fine and could probably be challenged in court or possibly via a chargeback if a passenger thought they had a case.
 
When I purchase a room, a flight, or groceries, do I automatically agree to have the vendor store my credit card details, including the passcode, on their systems? I thought that was not the case as when I buy on for example amazon.ie or Easons they ask do I want to store my details for future purchases. In the olden days I used to tick the "Yes" box, now I always decline.

I have created an app on my own devices that stores the details of all my cards and all my ship-to addresses for gifts in one secure place. This allows me to copy and paste the necessary data onto websites for purchases on an as-required basis. Am I just kidding myself and do vendors store my details anyway, even against my wishes?

Some sites force you through a registration process that includes giving them your details including card details and storing them in their databases before you can purchase from them, others allow guest purchases. Are these a myth and do they store the details anyway? And I know they can find out a lot about me anyway just by having one of my email addresses, required for an emailed electronic receipt.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
But can a private company actually fine people?
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Perish the thought, but maybe this is a publicity stunt by a company with a long track record in that vein?

(Disclaimer: I've been a customer of Ryanair in the past, would use them again, and have never had any major problems with the service that they provide or the price charged. )
 
I never allow Ryanair hold my credit card details. When booking recently they asked me did I want to use my credit card xxxx xxxx.
 
If you actually buy something from them, they store the details of the payment. They need to, for accounting/audit purposes, and in case they need to make a refund. The details stored will include your CC details, if you pay by CC. They don't need your express permission for this.

When they ask if you want to store your details for future purchases, they're asking if you want their website to prompt you with your CC details if and when you make a future purchase. But, regardless of what you answer to that question, they will store your details in connection with the present purchase anyway.
 
I think hotels charge a deep cleaning fee which I guess they could justify if you challenged it. Carpet cleaning, dry clean curtains etc.
So not dissimilar to a taxi.

I don’t smoke and a hotel tried to charge me for that once, however I had reported the smokey room by phone when I arrived, and luckily I had also emailed them about it when the receptionist was dismissive, “sorry no more rooms feel free to check out” it was late and I couldn’t. But they listed a range of additional services that were needed to deal with the smoke.

Not sure Ryanair could demonstrate additional costs from a disruptive passenger, a spilled drink is about the height of it really.
 
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