Revenue says I have 2 years to pay for my first rental return?

Background is that I first rented my apt in 2011 and used Form 12 to pay tax. Thats ok.

For 2012 I am over the threshold and I have to self-assess and complete Form 11. In order to file and pay I registered for ROS and registered for tax. I go in to begin working on my return online and its states it is not due till 2014...

I email Revenue...they reconfirm and say I have 2 years to pay and file as I only registered for self-assessment in 2012. They understand i used Form 12 for 2011.

In the Guide to Self-Assessment it does say that one has 2 years to file and pay when they first start to trade under self assessment but everywhere else it seems to say that on 2012 rental income I am obliged to pay preliminary tax and tax by end of Oct 2013.

I would be grateful if anyone could advise as to what is correct. If I don't have to pay till 2014 it would be a weight off my mind. Although I appreciate it would be a whopper of a bill.

You're getting confused between 2 distinct and separate obligations:

1. The obligation to file a tax return - this is where you have an extra year. Your 2012 & 2013 Form 11's are both due on or before 31/10/2014.

2. The obligation to pay your tax - this is not altered by the grace peiod for filing the return - so while you have an extra year to file the return for 2012, your obligation to pay the tax due is unaltered.

It's all a bit mad really, since the only way you'll know how much to pay this October is by doing all the calculations, which means you may as well just file the return and be done with it!

Thank you mandelbrot.

I got very excited as cashflow isnt great right now, but we will be back on track in few months.

So what you are saying is, if I dont pay by mid-Nov for tax and preliminary tax I will be hit with interest when I file in 2014 as we wouldnt be compliant.

Yes, you will be liable for interest, which they may or may not seek to charge & collect.

All you can do is pay what you can by 31st October, and then top it up afterwards. That way you would be reducing the shortfall on which they might charge you interest.

I hate to disagree with my learned friend @mandelbrot but the extension as I understand does not apply in the case of rental income or proprietary directors. I have never filed a form 11 in a rental case late but have been advised of this.

I agree that in the case of a trade that the extension applied but this is down to the fact that you are entitled to prepare 12 months accounts which may run well into the next year.

Having said that ROS is throwing out the extended date but I would file the return.

Hmmmm, looking at it again I'd say Joe is right - I can't find anything in the manuals or the legislation about this concession, but the IT10 does say, "Individuals, who enter the self-assessment system because they have commenced to trade, have until the return filing date for the second year to submit tax returns for both the first and second year of trading".

Sorry for the misinformation...!

Actually it seems Joe is not right. I emailed Revenue again to reconfirm for my records when I the deadline is in regard to rental income:

Revenue: "Individuals, who enter the self-assessment system because they have commenced to trade, have until the return filing date for the second year to submit tax returns for both the first and second year of trading (e. g. if you register for self-assessment during 2012 the due date for filing the return is 31 October 2014)."
Me: "Yes I read this, but I thought for rental income this would not be the case. Can you reconfirm for my records?"

Revenue: "The due date of October 2014 will also apply in your case."

It makes no reference to "paying", but I did unfortunately think that paying and filing were the same thing...

In reference to the term "trade", being a landlord in my eyes is "trading" anyway is it not?

Rental income is not "trading" at least as far as tax legislation is concerned.

That's my view of it too.

I think the OP is more interested in the payment dates anyway.

They registered in 2012 so the following are the important date.

31 October 2012: 2012 Preliminary Tax, presumably a NIL on 100% rule.

31 October 2013: Balance of tax 2012 & preliminary tax 2013.

Page 7 of [broken link removed]

Thanks Joe - that is a good leaflet.

Just 2 more questions; i have had 2 conflicting answers from Revenue.

Husband and I are jointly assessed, my husband being the assessible spouse. However, as owner of the investment property, I am the chargeable person.

• Revenue are now saying that the tax registration is to be done under his name in ROS...I cant do it under my login as I am not the assessible spouse (I had registered separately from ROS but now it says it has ceased and I cant re-register as I'm not the assessible spouse). Is it relevant whos name the registration is under? I would have thought it should be in mine.
  
• One person told me that I should complete the Form 11, another said under my husbands pps. I am presuming that it should be under my husbands login/pps would be correct, as he is the assessible spouse?