Restaurant - Service Charge

Am I a bit odd in finding the whole idea of a "service charge" in a restaurant to be ridiculous? Surely the idea of eating out is to have your food served to you & the price of a course should always factor in the cost of service. Adding 10-15% at the end of your bill just doesn't seem fair.

If I see a service charge on a bill for less than 6 or 8 people I don't tip. The service charge is normally less than I'd tip (depending on level of service of course) so the restaurant are the ones losing out.

Never tip if there is a service charge!

As far as I know service charges in restaurants are discretionary, even if they are presented as mandatory, and the restaurant cannot enforce payment if you dispute it on the basis of poor service.

I guess that's fair enough, as you wouldn't pay for the food if it was poor, would you, so why pay for poor service?

When you say 'discretionary' are you sure? I would have thought that as long as you know you're being charged for something in advance, there's nothing to stop them is there? All restaurants have a 'service charge' of some sort incorporated into their prices (i.e. the recovery of staff costs). I generally tip when eating out (having spent many years as a waiter and barman myself), but usually don't if there's a service charge (unless service is exceptional). What would bother me about a service charge is that the restaurant owner might pocket this at the expense of the staff? I remember working in a restaurant where tour bus tips were collected by the manager and we always felt short changed when we got our share as it was a pittance compared to what we expected.

CCOVICH said:

When you say 'discretionary' are you sure?

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Not 100% sure. I seem to recall finding something confirming this ages ago but I can't find anything authoritative now. It may be that, like not paying for a bad meal itself, it is an measure that would only be employed in extreme circumstances rather than as a matter of course. If I challenged the restaurant on service charges and did happen to return then I'd be checking my food for additional discretionary "ingredients" next time around.

Heh heh. At least you know some of the behind the scenes antics that happen in restaurants then. Best not to think about anything that may have happened to your food en route to the table . If it tastes good, isn't moving and you survive the night, than no harm done eh?

Was just throwing out the question as its something for some strange reason that really annoys me. I have no problem paying 11 Euro for a meal in restaurant A but paying 10 Euro plus 10% serrvice charge in restaurant B for the exact same meal would seriously p#ss me off!! Surely the whole point of being in a restaurant & one of the reasons you pay that bit extra is to have your food served to you. Maybe all this time they've being serving it to me for free ..
On another point I always tip good service & always make a point where a service charge is applied of informing the waiting staff that had there been no service charge I would have been more generous.
Also I would love to know where this service charge goes?

Why would paying €11 vs. paying €11 (€10 + 10%) for the same meal in different restaurants pi$$ you off? Surely it's just a different method of displaying a price, i.e. the €11 includes service, but €10 doesn't?

Why would paying €11 vs. paying €11 (€10 + 10%) for the same meal in different restaurants pi$$ you off? Surely it's just a different method of displaying a price, i.e. the €11 includes service, but €10 doesn't?

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Because when the prices are listed on the menu or in the window, that should be the price you pay. I don't agree with this idea of separating out parts of the cost to the consumer to create an illusion of better value.

It's the Ryanair Model. Headline price looks cheap, but every single thing they can is broken out into a special charge. They even tried listing Wheelchair levy as a separate charge.

Why not have Free Flights on every route and in the small print list every concievable cost to the airline.

Pilot Fee €20
Fuel Fee €25
Cabin Crew €50
etc. etc.


The price listed should be the price you pay be it a restaurant or any other business.
Unless there's a very good reason for separating it out. Like an optional charge.

I'm with the poster above. If a service charge is automatically added I don't tip unless the service is really really top notch. The automatically added charge is usually less than I would normally tip.

I find it's rare for a charge to be automatically added for parties of less than 8 though.

Has anyone noticed that Chip And Pin makes it slightly harder to give a Tip. Not all restaurants show you the Gratuity Screen to enter a tip amount.

I usually prefer to tip in cash even if paying by credit card, so I know it has a better chance of getting to the person who served me. But sometimes you need to use the card.

-Rd

daltonr said:

Because when the prices are listed on the menu or in the window, that should be the price you pay. I don't agree with this idea of separating out parts of the cost to the consumer to create an illusion of better value.

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It's not an illusion-any place I've seen a service charge has it clearly advertised on the menu on the window and on the menu in the restaurant. And it's not like 10% is hard to calculate.

A few Chinese restaurants around Dublin have service charges on all meals, but in general it is only on parties of 6/8 or more in most other restaurants.

I would agree about the chip and pin, but many places didn't have a gratuity option on the slip to sign anyway. And yes it's easier to leave cash, and you can generally be sure that the person who served you will get it, but then again you mightn't have change to leave on the table.

My biggest issue with an automatic service charge is that I don't know where it's going. I can be fairly sure the tip I leave will go to the staff, and not straight to the management. My other objection to it is in the case of really bad service where I have to get into an argument with the restaurant management. If I get poor service in a restaurant without a service charge, I can leave a very small token tip to make the point.

Seagull said:

If I get poor service in a restaurant without a service charge, I can leave a very small token tip to make the point.

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Why would you leave a tip at all - Tipping to me is a way of saying thanks for a service above the job description. I dont buy in to automatic tipping or the excuse that the staff get paid low wages. If tipping becomes "manditory" - what will encourage the management to ever pay their staff a proper wage.

If you tip, do not add the tip on your laser/credit card.. leave cash, otherwise it is very likely the waiter/waiteress wouldn't actually get the tip.

Some restaurants do take a % of the tip from their staff!!! In one particular, restaurant, owner takes 35% of the tips, manager takes 30%, the rest goes to the service & kitchen staff.....

In some countries, France being one, the service charges is "bundled" into the price you see on the menu (i think it is 17.5%!!) . So, no tipping required.
This is why French restaurant staff loves English/Irish/American.. they get 10/15% tip on the top of the bill which already includes service charges of 17.5%. Sweet....

When I worked in a certain restauarant we used to take the cash value of credit card tips out of the till as we processed them. The owner then took the full amount of the credit card payment. Thus you got the value of your credit card tips on the night. I am aware of other restaurants where this was done, so it could be common enough practice.

bacchus said:

.... In one particular, restaurant, owner takes 35% of the tips, manager takes 30%, the rest goes to the service & kitchen staff.....

....

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Name & Shame Please
This is entirely unacceptable & we should all be made aware of it, so we can avoid it, until they start treating their stafff fairly.



I don't like the idea of putting a % service charge on top of the bill, I'm with "the Dalton Gang" (sounds like a gang of old cowboy types ) and beleive the price advertised should be the final price charged etc.

I've no problem with tipping, when service has been very good but hate the feeling that you must tip ... it's becoming too muck like the USA over here these days.

Also, why do we have to pay a service charge, of an additional 10% or more, when we are in a group of over 6 or 8 people ? ... it's rubbish, there is no difference to there being 4 groups of 2 people at 4 different tables.

Simply put: It's a Resturants obligation to pay their staff, not ours

Perhaps we should start a thread where we have found resturants that charge service charges and consider boycotting them ?

Regards


G>

Garrettod said:

Also, why do we have to pay a service charge, of an additional 10% or more, when we are in a group of over 6 or 8 people ? ... it's rubbish, there is no difference to there being 4 groups of 2 people at 4 different tables.

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Perhaps because when there is a table of 6+ people then it takes more effort in the kitchen etc. to time the preparation of that number of starters, main courses etc. so that they all arrive together than if there are three tables of two etc.?

Simply put: It's a Resturants obligation to pay their staff, not ours

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But the customer generates the revenue that allows this to happen. I can't see the problem as long as the service charge is clearly stated on the price list/menu (as I presume is the legal obligation) allowing the customer to make an informed decision as to whether they want to make a purchase or not.

ClubMan said:

Perhaps because when there is a table of 6+ people then it takes more effort in the kitchen etc. to time the preparation of that number of starters, main courses etc. so that they all arrive together than if there are three tables of two etc.? ....

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Hi

Yea, maybe, but it certainly does not justify the kind of exta charge that can be up to 15% imho.

I'd have thought that if anything, the restuarant would be pleased to have a definite 6 or more customers coming in (easier to get this in 1 booking, than 3-4 imho)

Cheers

G>
http://www.rpoints.com/newbie

If you don't like the service charge then don't patronise the establishment. Simple.

ClubMan said:

If you don't like the service charge then don't patronise the establishment. Simple.

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Agree entirely, but sometimes these don't come to light until your seated and having a drink, having first sat down, taken your coat off etc etc.

I wish we had a strict policy with all restuarants in Ireland having the menus outside the door / in the window. Often, they are available but not always.

Regards


G>
http://www.rpoints.com/newbie