Renewing a Lease

O

oldman

Registered User
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Hi

If a Tenant agrees to renew a lease , can they wait to sign the New Lease until the last day of the old Lease .

Regards.
 
Hi!
Just did a search there on my question, and found this post ...
Anyway, my question: as a landlord, how do I renew a lease?
I got a Lease agreement template last year, filled in the details and dates and we both signed.
To renew, should I just get another template, and fill in the same details with new dates?
Is there a shorter way, like photocopying the pages that don't change, and then just signing with new dates.
Or an even shorter way, like writing a letter to say the Lease is extended by another 12 months?
Thanks,
/M.
 
The question is, does your tenant want a new fixed term lease or does he want a Part 4 lease? It is the tenant who chooses what he wants, not the landlord deciding he wants a Fixed term lease.

If your tenant goes for a new fixed term, you need to type out (or download a template) the first page of the first lease (save it before you fill in the details so you have a template for next year) and fill in all the details. You can use a photocopy of any pages not modified.

Manuel said:
Or an even shorter way, like writing a letter to say the Lease is extended by another 12 months?
Click to expand...

You are a professional, running a business, so why not do it the professional way. It doesn't take long to type the first page of a lease. Then, if there is a claim, for any reason, you have a proper legal document to hand.
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If I give an erroneous reply, I will be grateful for the correction.
 
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facetious said:
The question is, does your tenant want a new fixed term lease or does he want a Part 4 lease? It is the tenant who chooses what he wants, not the landlord deciding he wants a Fixed term lease.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. I'm curious about this bit above ... is that because the tenant has been in place for more than 6 months and now has more rights, as opposed to when I drew up the initial Lease Agreement? I would have thought that at the end of the fixed term lease period everything was up for negotiation again? Anyway, it's not an issue. The only reason I wanted to have the Lease Agreement in the first place was to have a bit of security for both parties.
And the main reason I would like to renew the Lease 12 months at a time is that I would like to be in a position to consider putting the house up for sale at the end of any 12 month period, giving the required notice of course.

Even in a Part 4 Lease arrangement, I would still be entitled to end the tenancy at x months notice, if my reason was to put the house up for sale, right? It's a while since I looked into this stuff, not sure what x is ....

Thanks again.
 

At the end of the fixed term lease you have what is known as a periodic tenancy i.e. the terms of the initial agreement will apply with the exception of the fixed term. Part 4 still applies and the tenant does not have to sign a lease if they don't want to.
 
Páid, I think your link to Wikipedia was really about tenancies in the USA. In Ireland, at the end of a fixed term lease, if no further lease is signed, the tenancy automatically becomes a Part 4 tenancy.
In Ireland, a Periodic tenancy can occur during the first six months of tenancy where no fixed term has been established. A periodic tenancy (sometimes called a moth to month tenancy) may be terminated with 28 days notice by either party. Obviously, once a tenant has been in place for 6 months, he acquires Part 4 rights under which gives him certain rights, among which is a minimum notice period of 35 days.

You are quite right that if a Part 4 tenancy follows on from a fixed term lease, any special clauses carry over, excluding the fixed term.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
If I give an erroneous reply, I will be grateful for the correction.
 
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Yes, everything is up for negotiation apart from the type of lease the tenant wants. The tenant chooses whether he wants the more secure fixed term agreement as the landlord may only evict a tenant if the latter is in breach of his obligations. However, a tenant also has the option, if he decides to leave mid term, of an assignment. The landlord has no way out except for example a buy-out of the lease which could be costly.

The disadvantage for the landlord (and advantage for the tenant) in a Part 4 tenancy is that the tenant may vacate with the correct notice, at any time. The tenant does not have to find a replacement tenant unlike an assignment.

If you have a fixed term agreement, you may only evict the tenant at the end of the tenancy and you would have to wait until the lease expires (the next day when Part 4 rules apply) to both tenant and landlord. However, IMHO, a landlord may serve a Notice of Termination during a fixed term as long as the day of eviction falls after the fixed term expires. There is a group of people who say that a landlord cannot serve the NoT until the fixed term has expired.

You can, of course have a Part 4 lease agreement if you want something in writing (and signed) but few landlords use one and just let the tenancy roll on.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
If I give an erroneous reply, I will be grateful for the correction.
 
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facetious said:
Páid, I think your link to Wikipedia was really about tenancies in the USA. In Ireland, at the end of a fixed term lease, if no further lease is signed, the tenancy automatically becomes a Part 4 tenancy.
Click to expand...

I was talking about Ireland. I was under the impression that the tenant had to claim the Part 4 rights before or after the end of the fixed term lease. I could be wrong.

From here - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html


If the tenant doesn't claim Part 4 rights (and I don't believe they have in this case) then it's a periodic tenancy until they do.
 
Páid, I beg to differ. Even if a tenant does not advise a landlord between 3 months and 1 month prior to the end of a fixed term tenancy that he wishes to stay, it does not negate his right to a Part 4 tenancy rights; these have been acquired at the six month point. However, the tenant may be liable for any expenses the landlord may have had in anticipation of the tenant vacating. This could include having advertized the property and/or engaged an agent to handle finding a new tenant.

In your scenario of the tenant not advising the landlord, the landlord could serve a NoT giving 28 days notice which is incorrect as the tenant has been in the property for more than 1 year.

Extract fro the RTA 2004
38.—(1) If a Part 4 tenancy is assigned by the tenant with the consent of the landlord then if the assignment is—
(a) to a person, other than a sub-tenant of the dwelling concerned, the assignment shall operate to convert the Part 4 tenancy of the dwelling into a periodic tenancy of the dwelling and the protection provided by section 28 for the assignor shall accordingly cease....

Thus, the landlord may evict the new tenant during the first 6 months of the tenancy by giving 28 days notice without a reason. It must be observed that the new tenant is not already a sub-tenant because a sub-tenant may have already been in the property for more than six months.
 
Correct, but the tenant does not have to claim his/her Part 4 rights whether or not they have been acquired. The landlord cannot force a Part 4 tenancy on the tenant.

In your scenario of the tenant not advising the landlord, the landlord could serve a NoT giving 28 days notice which is incorrect as the tenant has been in the property for more than 1 year.
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In that scenario the tenant simply has to claim a part 4 tenancy as they cannot be refused coverage under Part 4. But the tenant could not claim Part 4 rights, making it a periodic tenancy. This is beneficial to the tenant as if they had a fixed term lease for 1 year paying rent monthly, then stayed for another 6 months before deciding to move out, they could give the landlord a months notice instead of the 42 days required by the RTA 2004.

That section relates to a tenancy being assigned to another person with the consent of the landlord and is not relevant to the OP's question.
 

Absolutely incorrect. In no way can the notice periods in tables in section 66 be altered except by mutual consent at the time immediately preceding the NoT or any time after that. The RTA 2004 is explicit in that.

My point about my last quote in my last post was to show that a Part 4 tenancy IS different to a Periodic tenancy.

If a tenant, after a 1 year fixed term lease followed by six months in occupation left with 28 days (1 month) notice. The landlord would be entitled to retain part of, if not all of, the tenant's deposit.

Please supply your source that after the expiry of a fixed term lease, the tenancy would become a "Periodic" tenancy and not a Part 4 tenancy.
 
In the absence of the tenant claiming Part 4 rights at the end of a fixed term lease what does the tenancy become?
 
Páid said:
In the absence of the tenant claiming Part 4 rights at the end of a fixed term lease what does the tenancy become?
Click to expand...
A tenant does not have to claim Part 4 rights, s/he automatically acquires these rights once s/he has been in the property for 6 months. This usually occurs during a fixed term lease. At the expiry of the fixed term, the tenant has the option of signing a new fixed term lease.

However, the tenant may opt to remain in the property under his part 4 rights already acquired this would be a Part 4 tenancy. Part 4 tenancies are seldom written but there is nothing stopping a landlord (or a tenant) requesting to have a written Part 4 lease agreement.

The tenant does not have to "claim" Part 4 rights at the end of a fixed term agreement; he already has them. However, in order to prevent the landlord from the expense of finding a tenant when a fixed term tenancy expires, the tenant is responsible for advising the landlord (between 3 and 1 month prior to the expiry date) that he wishes to remain in the property. Failure to advise the landlord of his intention to remain does not deny the tenant his Part 4 rights but he may become liable for any of the landlord's vouched expenses if the latter had started to advertize for new tenants. IMHO, a good landlord would check what his tenant intended to do, anyway.

It took me quite a while to understand exactly how a Part 4 tenancy worked. I found it confusing that a Part 4 tenancy could exist at the same time as, and run along side, a Fixed term tenancy.
 
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facetious said:
It took me quite a while to understand exactly how a Part 4 tenancy worked. I found it confusing that a Part 4 tenancy could exist at the same time as, and run along side, a Fixed term tenancy.
Click to expand...
It makes me feel a bit happier to hear you say that you found a least one part of the RTA confusing. All of it confuses me. It is very poorly written in my honest opinion. It could and should have been written in a more understandable manner.
 
Miss Justice Lefroy commented on the RTA 2004 that in places it was complex, technical and difficult to understand. If a Judge found it so, what hope have we, poor plebs, got?
 
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