I have a relative who is in a nursing home for the last two years and who has a dormant account with one of the national banks.
To reclaim their funds the bank asks for three certified items of valid ID, proof of address, utility bills, etc.
My relative is completely immobile and can not visit any bank branch or Garda station. They don't have valid ID or utilities in their name. In short, they come nowhere near what the bank requires to release the dormant funds.
Does anyone here have any experiences with a situation like this?
I talked to one bank who have policies for dealing with this situation by using trusted third parties; another bank I dealt with insists on dealing with responsible nursing home staff for cases like this. I've also been able to help the relative claim dormant funds with State Savings by dealing with helpful staff. But the bank in question prefers to maintain impossible-to-meet criteria and, according to the Central Bank, they are allowed to interpret the law as suits them.
Yes, I have all that and supplied a list of such when I went to the bank branch. They could only say to bring in everything and then they might ask for more (plus valid ID). Unlike other banks they couldn't say what exactly was required. I also don't trust their handling of private data because they disclosed details of another customer to me despite my not actually being a customer myself. After that I took it to the Ombudsman.Your relative would be receiving statements from the nursing home regularly which would be valid proof of current address and a utility address. The nursing home should be able to provide a letter stating what their previous address was before they moved to the home. Do they not have public service card? State pension? Medical card? Hospital appointments? All of these would generate paperwork. Fair deal? Is their letters from the other banks showing proof of address, or the state savings?
What paperwork have you provided to the bank?
Their website says so but they also seem to require the individual to be present. I know that Gardai don't like certifying all sorts of business-related documentation but apparently they are obliged to do so. If it's complicated then they can refuse. In this case the relative will have to rely on the nursing home staff but the bank in question doesn't accept that.Do the Garda stations still do the old ML10 forms or whatever they were called to certify a person's identity? If they do then it would be worth calling in to them to see what the situation is, I know your relative can't call there themselves but there are community guards assigned in areas, well we have them here anyway as I had reason to deal with one years ago, maybe one of them could help out if personal sight of the person is required.
Thanks for the tips. It's been too much trouble trying to pursue this 50km from the nursing home during a pandemic.I'd definitely at least try going in to a garda station and asking face to face assuming you can still do that in these days of covid! Always too easy to say 'no' on the phone.
I wrote an article about this in 2015. You have to confirm name, date of birth and address. What companies will accept is up to them. One company I deal with won't accept the old driving licence anymore but will accept you being on the electoral register as proof of address.Thanks for the replies, guys.
I guess I'm hoping to find out what is the minimum required to reasonably identify oneself as an account holder and it seems that there's no easy answer for me. As it stands the bank can capriciously refuse to recover the dormant funds (kept with NTMA, I know).
Thanks for your article. It's a useful summary of the situation.I wrote an article about this in 2015. You have to confirm name, date of birth and address. What companies will accept is up to them. One company I deal with won't accept the old driving licence anymore but will accept you being on the electoral register as proof of address.
A Garda community officer may go into the home to meet the person involved.
Thanks for your article. It's a useful summary of the situation.
I'll write letters for the relative to deal with this directly. The bank will ultimately have to explain to the Ombudsman why only they suspect a 79 year old disabled woman who has lived in the same locality nearly all her life can't have her own money sent to her own current account.
Thanks for your article. It's a useful summary of the situation.
I'll write letters for the relative to deal with this directly. The bank will ultimately have to explain to the Ombudsman why only they suspect a 79 year old disabled woman who has lived in the same locality nearly all her life can't have her own money sent to her own current account.
You can submit a complaint to the FSPO if you are a consumer, which means:
and you are:
- a private individual - eg a personal policy holder/account holder
- a customer of the financial service provider,
- a person to whom the provider has offered the service, or
- a person who has sought a financial service from the provider
You can also make a complaint if you are:
- a surviving dependant of a consumer
- a legal personal representative of a deceased consumer
- a widow, widower or surviving spouse or civil partner of a deceased consumer
- any person who is contractually entitled to benefit from a long-term financial service
- an employee or a former employee entitled to benefit from an income continuance plan
- a consumer who was, in relation to a credit agreement, a customer of the financial service provider in a case where a credit servicing firm undertakes credit servicing in respect of the credit agreement concerned
Fully agree.I can tell you they will have no problem explain themselves to the ombudsman, they are fully complying with the MLA rules and regulations. The ombudsman is not going to direct any bank to break the law, it is as simple as that. Nobody, not even the Garda are going to certify the identity of a person they cannot see - there are serious consequences for doing so, if it goes pear shape.
You need to work WITH the bank, if you want to move this forward. Complaints to Ombudsman because a bank is correctly applying MLA is not going to win you any friends or favours. In fact the opposite.
You can have look through the EU Consolidated Financial Sanctions list to see the list of known people that accounts aren't to be opened for.
Bear in mind that you are not in this case (not initially at any rate) dealing with AML (Anti Money Laundering) requirements, you are dealing with Dormant Accounts legislation and while there are similarities there are also important differences.I talked to one bank who have policies for dealing with this situation by using trusted third parties; another bank I dealt with insists on dealing with responsible nursing home staff for cases like this. I've also been able to help the relative claim dormant funds with State Savings by dealing with helpful staff. But the bank in question prefers to maintain impossible-to-meet criteria and, according to the Central Bank, they are allowed to interpret the law as suits them.
The downloadable pdfs are accepted. Everyone who has paperless billing has access to these. What is not usually not accepted is a screen print.Utility bills are not that easy to get, I would have said a bank statement would be easier for most people although you'd probably have to order it. I am the bill payer in this house and I'm trying to think what actual utility bills I receive, nothing comes in the post anyway, does a bill printed from online suffice? I know banks used not take those and they were always a bit fixed in what a utility was, for example gas bill was fine if it was monthly one but invoice for bulk gas wouldn't do!
Maybe the person doesn't have a property, can't keep utility bills alive in that case! If they have a property would a bank take the LPT letter that went out this year, I'm inclined to think they wouldn't class it as a utility bill but you never know!
I'm not asking the bank to break the law. I'm not asking the Gardai to certify the identity of someone they can't see although the bank asked me to do exactly that.I can tell you they will have no problem explain themselves to the ombudsman, they are fully complying with the MLA rules and regulations. The ombudsman is not going to direct any bank to break the law, it is as simple as that. Nobody, not even the Garda are going to certify the identity of a person they cannot see - there are serious consequences for doing so, if it goes pear shape.
You need to work WITH the bank, if you want to move this forward. Complaints to Ombudsman because a bank is correctly applying MLA is not going to win you any friends or favours. In fact the opposite.
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