Realising loss of low value shares

P

paper-folder

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Hi All,

I have a small number of shares in one of the Irish banks that sees me sitting on a substantial loss of several thousand euro. At current share price, they are worth less than €70. Thankfully, I will also have a capital gains tax liability on some other shares sold recently, so I am anxious to realise the loss on the former and use it to offset my overall liability. I only ever bought a few shares years ago and currently don’t have an account with a stock broking company.

The shares are in certificate form and the registrar informs me that the printed certificate will have to be deposited with an independent broker before they can be sold as the registrar can’t sell them since Brexit. Am I correct in thinking that this severely limits who I can deal with and puts the on-line trading platforms like Degiro out of the picture?

If I have to pay a maintenance fee and a minimum trading fee with a broker, it is very likely that this would cost more than the shares are worth. So would Revenue accept that they are now of negligible value and allow me to write them off?

I know that they can be donated but I think that this doesn't count to crystallise a loss. Alternatively is it possible to arrange a private sale/ transfer of the shares to someone else at market value without the need to engage a stockbroker at all, and realise the loss that way?

Thanks.
 
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Thanks RedOnion, I can appreciate it's about releasing the value of the loss.

Does anyone know is it possible to arrange a private sale of shares to save going down the stockbroker route, with all the paperwork that that is going to involve? I can cut someone a good deal on them .
 
paper-folder said:
Does anyone know is it possible to arrange a private sale of shares to save going down the stockbroker route, with all the paperwork that that is going to involve? I can cut someone a good deal on them
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Like, I give you a fiver for them?
But you name stays on the share register?

It'd be a difficult one to get over the line if Revenue asked a question I think.
 
You say that it’s “very likely” that it would cost more than the shares are worth to sell them through a broker.

They’re worth €70…

So why on earth wouldn’t you just sell them through a broker?

a) €70 nothing

b) The bigger game is ensuring that you can use the loss. Giving them to a connected party would restrict the loss and only allow it to be offset against gains on transactions with that same party
 
RedOnion said:
Like, I give you a fiver for them?
But you name stays on the share register?

It'd be a difficult one to get over the line if Revenue asked a question I think.
Click to expand...

No, genuine question. Can I sell them privately to someone else for the market value and request that the registrar transfer the ownership? All done openly and stamp duty paid, etc. Not done with the intention of defrauding Revenue, but just an economical way of disposing of them. And
outside of any issue with CGT, can people trade shares privately or does it always have to be done through stockbrokers? Thanks.
 
Why would the buyer do that when they’re going to encounter the same problem you have?
 
Gordon Gekko said:
Why would the buyer do that when they’re going to encounter the same problem you have?
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Why does that matter for the sake of my question? If I can get someone to agree to it, can I sell shares privately or does it always have to be done through a stockbroker?
 
paper-folder said:
No, genuine question.
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Sorry, didn't mean to sound cheeky.

I really don't see how the share registrar could do this for you if they are restricted from selling for you post-Brexit. I'm not close to it. Check of there's a "stock transfer form" for the company. I don't know of this is a free service.
But you're putting a friend in a similar situation - they've a 70 euro share certificate that will cost then that much to cash in.

I'm in a similar situation with some UK bank shares worth about £50 and I've been putting it off but need to sell them now.
 
Sell them and the associated costs add to you loss. Same way as sling a house, you include estate agent costs and solicitors fees in reducing your overall "gain"
 
Thanks, no problem, I should have been clearer. They do have a stock transfer form, so maybe that's an option to look into.

Another question please. I know I need to make a CGT payment on my gain before 15 December. Can I pay that in full before that date and then make an adjustment when I make my tax return next year, making allowance at that stage for the losses presuming that I get them sold by Dec 31st? Thanks.
 
paper-folder said:
Can I pay that in full before that date and then make an adjustment when I make my tax return next year, making allowance at that stage for the losses presuming that I get them sold by Dec 31st?
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Yes. The overpayment will be refunded when you file your return.
 
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