Thanks, but I'm not yet an investor. I'm looking at the returns on the KID docs and can't see anywhere if those return figures are before or after AMC.When a customer is sent a statement, with unit prices and fund values, those figures include the effects of the AMC.
Does it matter given that those returns are simply illustrative and not actual guides to future returns, never mind guarantees? In short, they're useless.Thanks, but I'm not yet an investor. I'm looking at the returns on the KID docs and can't see anywhere if those return figures are before or after AMC.
The KID is intended to show the real cost of investing including all distribution costs (commissions) and additional fees and expenses like trading costs not reflected in the AMC which is purely an administration cost.Currently talking with a Financial advisor around investments.
Struggling to get my head around AMC/CIV fees on Zurich/aviva/Irish life type investment funds and the reported returns. FA doesnt seem to have a clue (or at least is not being anyway clear).
My question - are KID returns shown after AMC is taken, or before?
I don't understand what a CIV is, other than its a fund charge. Shouldn't that be included in the AMC?
thanks for any & all advice.
Currently talking with a Financial advisor around investments.
Struggling to get my head around AMC/CIV fees on Zurich/aviva/Irish life type investment funds and the reported returns. FA doesnt seem to have a clue (or at least is not being anyway clear).
My question - are KID returns shown after AMC is taken, or before?
I don't understand what a CIV is, other than its a fund charge. Shouldn't that be included in the AMC?
thanks for any & all advice.
I recently spent 4 hours on a flight with the charging booklet for some of the pension and investment products for just one life insurance company.Currently talking with a Financial advisor around investments.
Struggling to get my head around AMC/CIV fees on Zurich/aviva/Irish life type investment funds and the reported returns. FA doesnt seem to have a clue (or at least is not being anyway clear).
My question - are KID returns shown after AMC is taken, or before?
I don't understand what a CIV is, other than its a fund charge. Shouldn't that be included in the AMC?
thanks for any & all advice.
yes it does. it gives you an indication of which funds have performed better in the past AFTER costs. fully appreciate past performance is no indication of the future performance etc etc. But you need to have something to start basing your investment decisions on. Cost is a huge part of it. So is performance.Does it matter given that those returns are simply illustrative and not actual guides to future returns, never mind guarantees? In short, they're useless.
That only makes sense if they provide data for assumed performance before and after charges.yes it does. it gives you an indication of which funds have performed better in the past AFTER costs. fully appreciate past performance is no indication of the future performance etc etc. But you need to have something to start basing your investment decisions on. Cost is a huge part of it. So is performance.
well i would prefer to know if its before or after charges. If its before charges a 3% return drops off and isn't much better than a reasonable term deposit (with deposit having much less risk).That only makes sense if they provide data for assumed performance before and after charges.
So you're just deducting the annual management fees from the assumed return so the projected return figures are useless as I said in the first place.well i would prefer to know if its before or after charges. If its before charges a 3% return drops off and isn't much better than a reasonable term deposit (with deposit having much less risk).
I think the likes of zurich cost themselves a lot of business with the non disclosure of TER. I would love to invest and have somebody do all the admin such as exit tax. I'd happily pay the 1% amc. the biggest turn off for me is not knowing the additional charges.KIDs use best (lowest) and worst (highest) charges that could apply to the product you're buying.
Those don't just include intermediary fees, they include entry/exit, performance, transaction, administrative and operating costs by the product provider as well.
I have no evidence to suggest that the figures in the right hand column (worst) are standard or that they provide a fair comparison.
My focus is on the left-hand column.
At a guess, I would say that the typical charges for an advisory service is somewhere in the middle.
Gerard
www.bond.ie
I think the likes of zurich cost themselves a lot of business with the non disclosure of TER.
because the majority of people believe that when they sign up that the max fee is 1% amc, when this is not the case. its not clearly disclosed. this is why alot of people are going through degiro etc, to avoid being ripped off.How did you come to this conclusion?
The Other Ongoing Costs are disclosed in their Range Of Funds Guide so you just add those to the AMC you've been quoted and you have the equivalent TER.
In the context of your query, that could be 0.66% to 2.01% for the Indexed Global Equity (Blackrock) fund or (say the Prisma 4 Fund) 0.72% to 2.07%. depending on what service you want, what distribution channel you buy the product through and the intermediary who decides what the AMC is going to be . The higher OOCs for Multi Asset Funds are down to their construct - Equities, Bonds, Alternatives and Property elements.
Gerard
www.bond.ie
In the context of your query, that could be 0.66% to 2.01% for the Indexed Global Equity (Blackrock) fund or (say the Prisma 4 Fund) 0.72% to 2.07%. depending on what service you want, what distribution channel you buy the product through and the intermediary who decides what the AMC is going to be .
faie enough. in regards to funds guide... is it simply a matter of adding the additional amc to ongoing costs to inital amc. Will that give the TER. If so, its more clear than I originally thoughtSaying that OOCs/CIVs are not cleary disclosed isn't going to make that true. This may have been true a few years ago but is not the case for this particular company now. It's also possible that it's the fault of the person that you sought the information from initailly didn't bring your attention to them, didn't understand them and generally couldn't be bothered because there's no obligation on them to disclose them.
The Fund Guide is here
I have no idea what any other intermediary or execution only broker might charge someone to access that fund. I only know what people buy from me, and it's the lower one.
Gerard
www.bond.ie
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