Question about a Will - Puzzled by the valuation given by the Revenue Commissioners.

My uncle passed away. Probate has been granted on his will. The following is on the probate form “And it is hereby acknowledged by the Revenue Commissioners that the gross value of all of the Estate of the said deceased within the jurisdiction (exclusive of what the deceased may have been possessed of or entitled to as a Trustee and not beneficially) amounts to €^^^^^^ (approx €170,000) and that the net value thereof amounts to € ######## (approx 10k less than €^^^^^^.
His will states the following:-
“I leave my interest in the dwellinghouse and contents therein aforesaid to my wife (named) for her own use absolutely”.
The will goes on to state:-
“All the rest residue and remainder of my prooerty including any money I have in the bank (named) I leave equally between my nephews and nieces living at the date of my death and I appoint all my nephews and nieces residuary legatees and devisees of this my Will dated ——“

My late uncle married late in life & there were no children. His house would have been bought & paid for long before he married.

I am puzzled by the valuation given by the Revenue Commissioners. The house referred to is, in today’s market, worth significantly more than €170,000. And that’s not taking account of whatever few bob he had in the bank.
Does the value of his estate -as per the Revenue Commissioners - include the dwelling house?

Uncle passed away in 2019 & because of family dynamics, I’m reluctant to contact my cousin who was executor of his estate.
Any observations comments or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. CC

Perhaps he added his wife as a joint owner of the house, I’m no expert but I understand that if they owned it as joint tenants his share would not form part of his estate but would pass straight to her.

The property valuation has to be supported by documentation. It's not a figure pulled from thin air.

In any event, the property is not included in your bequest.

Has the executor paid your inheritance?

No. And it would come in mighty handy right now.

Candy Crush said:

I leave my interest in the dwellinghouse

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I have very little knowledge of inheritance law.

But it's plausible that his "interest" in the house was 50%, the rest being the wife's.

Thanks Thirsty. Obviously the property is not included in my & my cousins bequest. What I am wondering is if the property is included in the gross value of the estate - the €160k referred to in the grant of probate.

Candy Crush said:

No. And it would come in mighty handy right now.

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When was probate granted?

The statement that you quote in your OP:

.....it is hereby acknowledged by the Revenue Commissioners that the gross value of all of the Estate of the said deceased within the jurisdiction .... amounts to €^^^^^^ .....

doesn't actually mean that the Revenue Commissioner have valued the Estate, it just means that they are accepting (acknowledging) the valuations that were provided to them by the Executor, presumably in the SA2 Form.

So you're not really puzzled by the valuations provided by Revenue - you're puzzled by the valuations provided to Revenue by the Executor!

Shirazman said:

it just means that they are accepting (acknowledging) the valuations that were provided to them by the Executor, presumably in the SA2 Form.

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My guess is that there is some threshold below which they don't routinely query valuations.

For example a house worth €100k which is valued by the executor at €90k probably isn't going to result in any CAT paid in either case.

Shirazman said:

you're puzzled by the valuations provided to Revenue by the Executor

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Its the same difference in the end - the OP has a share in the residue, not the property; so house valuation is immaterial to them.

So far as the Statement of Affairs goes, unless things have changed drastically in recent months, every figure on the statement has to be supportable by external documentation, e.g invoices, bank statements, bills, house valuations.

Thirsty said:

Its the same difference in the end - the OP has a share in the residue, not the property; so house valuation is immaterial to them.

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Indeed; however the thread title suggests that s/he doesn't understand that Revenue doesn't value Estates. So my point is that s/he needs to query the valuation with the Executor, not with Revenue!

Isn't it the value at time of death that is used - eg, the 2019 value. That would be 20%-25% below today's price or even more in many cases.

In Newbridge, houses that were selling for 160k-170k in 2019 (ex council houses in town centre) are commanding 220-250k in today's market.

Property price register will give you some examples

Thirsty said:

When was probate granted?

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Probate granted in January this year.

peemac said:

Isn't it the value at time of death that is used - eg, the 2019 value. That would be 20%-25% below today's price or even more in many cases.

In Newbridge, houses that were selling for 160k-170k in 2019 (ex council houses in town centre) are commanding 220-250k in today's market.

Property price register will give you some examples

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Funny you should quote Newbridge. That’s where the property is.

Candy Crush said:

Probate granted in January this year.

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So, exec likely has bills to pay, revenue clearance, bank accounts etc.

It depends on how much of that stuff there is to deal with; but I'd be of the opinion that exec should be in contact in 4-6 months re your residual share.

Thirsty said:

So, exec likely has bills to pay, revenue clearance, bank accounts etc.

It depends on how much of that stuff there is to deal with; but I'd be of the opinion that exec should be in contact in 4-6 months re your residual share.

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100% correct. I've just bitten the bullet and called the executor. He confirmed that there are a number of loose ends to be tied up. He also pointed out that as there are 15 cousins in all, there won't be much left in the pot when all else is taken care of. At least I know now. Thanks everybody for your input. Very much appreciated.

peemac said:

Isn't it the value at time of death that is used - eg, the 2019 value. That would be 20%-25% below today's price or even more in many cases.

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I think it's value at date of the grant of probate.

Candy Crush said:

Funny you should quote Newbridge. That’s where the property is.

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I looked at buying an investment property there. Nov 2018 price was 145k. Almost identical property a few doors away in similar conditions sold for 216k last Nov. A 50% increase.

Just checked and it is stated on DNG website -
What is the date of the probate valuation? Irrespective of when the probate valuation occurs the valuer will give the property the value it had on the date the deceased passed away.

So looks like the valuation date of 2019 is the date on the probate

50% increase in house prices? Where will all of this end? We are currently renting - and don't have a snowball's hope in hell of ever scraping together a deposit for a mortgage (hence my wishful thinking about my uncle's will). Home heating oil, petrol, electricity, just the basic grocery shopping all gone sky-rocketing. For people like us who were just scraping by, if we tighten our belts any more, the belt is just going to snap. I fear for our kids.

peemac said:

Just checked and it is stated on DNG website -
What is the date of the probate valuation? Irrespective of when the probate valuation occurs the valuer will give the property the value it had on the date the deceased passed away.

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What Revenue say is the following:

In the case of property transferring from a deceased disponer, the valuation date is typically later than the date of the inheritance (date of death) and in most cases is the date of the grant of probate (or the date of the grant of administration for an intestacy)

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