Qualifying for UK voluntary contribution : 1 year in UK followed immediately by EU

M

Martin_K

New Member
Messages
6
Hi,
I have been only recently aware of the possibility to pay class 2 or class 3 in the UK system. I have 1 full qualifying year (i worked 6 months with 1 bonus payment, 1 full year seems recorded in the HMRC website), followed immediately by a move to Germany (no gap, immediate continuity). I have been working in Germany since.
The guidance says :
"If you lived or worked in an EU country, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland orTurkey, time spent there may help you to meet condition 2(a) or 2(b)."

I am puzzled by the "may". What does it legally mean? Does that mean that they have full discretion on giving the green light on this condition?

Looking at the forum, it seems that this was accepted, I have not found any case denied so far. A key thing seems to attach the Irish PRSI so on my side probably the german equivalent.

Any help would be appreciated even if I am not Irish :-) Good luck for the game tomorrow vs France !

PS : A refinement would even be a comment on the class which should be given. Logic seems to indicate class 2 according to the guidance but it looks that some members got only class 3 (and potentially class 2 on appealing).

tx!
 
Sorry I did not want to put all details at first. I did complete CF83 (online), and I was rejected. However I do think that I should qualify and it seems that other people in my case got a positive answer. I am now writing them back, I was only wondering if there is more guidance on the continuity argument, every source says that it "may" be considered. That is rather strange to have such a large discretion as ultimately everybody should be treated fairly.
Now that I am writing back to HMRC, I realize that I am not 100% sure if I understood and answered all questions of the CF83 form online correctly. Unfortunately, no copy of the form (or confirmation of the answers) was sent to me. I am wondering if that makes sense to include this time a paper version of the CF83 in my letter. Asking Chatgpt, he is advicing not to do that, as this will confuse things and say that the most important is the accuracy of the new letter. Would be great to have any advice on that.

tx!
 
If you're not sure re CF83, print it off & post the number of the question & your query.
 
Something else, about the Key Post. I think for this specific case, the link is :
--> threads/credited-uk-ni-contributions-as-a-teenager-why.216240/
However it does not seem active any more, i receive an error : "The requested thread could not be found"
 
It may have been moved or deleted.

In any event post your question re CF83 & we'll help if we can.
 
My question mostly refers to question 5 and 6.
5 is : Have you lived in the UK for 3 years in a row at any time before living or working abroad?
6 is : Have you paid 3 full years of National Insurance contributions before living or working abroad?

In my case, the answers to 5 and 6 are no (so I answered no on those questions). However I still think I qualify due to EU aggregation rules, as I continued working immediately in Germany after 1 year in UK (not even 1 day gap).

The current guidance says :
---
You can pay Class 2 National Insurance contributions if you’re employed or self-employed abroad if:


  1. Immediately before going abroad, you were ordinarily an employed or self-employed earner in the UK.
  2. You also satisfy either of the following conditions:

(a) You’ve lived in the UK for a continuous 3-year period at any time before the period for which National Insurance contributions are to be paid


(b) Before going abroad, you paid any of the following National Insurance:


  • from April 1975 to give 3 qualifying years
  • from April 1975 to give 2 qualifying years and paid 52 National Insurance contributions (of any Class) before 6 April 1975
  • from April 1975 to give 1 qualifying year and paid 104 National Insurance contributions (of any Class) before 6 April 1975
  • 156 National Insurance contributions (of any Class) before 6 April 1975

We’ll check this when you ask to pay Class 2 National Insurance contributions.


If you lived or worked in an EU country, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland or Turkey, time spent there may help you to meet condition 2(a) or 2(b).
---

The key thing is the last sentence, on the refusal paper from HMRC the last sentence wast not present, so it makes me think that it was not taken into consideration (although I had written that I lived and worked in EU immediately after UK). I am now replying with a letter but I was wondering if I should not enclosed a new form with a yes in questions 5 and/or 6.

The sentence about EU aggregation is as well weird : it seems that all the people successful that i saw on forum here using that argument had enclosed the PRSI contributions which makes me think that the successful way is to focus on (2)(b).
Logically speaking, one should think from "If you lived or worked in an EU country", that the "lived" refers to (2)(a), and that the "worked" refers to (2)(b). I have however not found any case that seems to have been successful using "lived".
I am as well thinking that using (2)(b), I may even be able to pay for the periods before the UK contributions, because (2)(b) does not contain ["before the period for which National Insurance contributions are to be paid"]

tx!
 
You can't answer yes to Q5, Q6. You did not live in the UK for the time specified.

You can certainly try your appeal, but I'm doubtful you will succeed.

Let us know how you get on.
 
Similarly always found this area odd, a literal interpretaion of allowing time in a EU country to count would allow many many more people qualify and a huge number of Irish.

I was turned down but this sentence was on that letter (many of my records were missing and really seems impossible to establish my time there 35 years on)

Of course the "may" could be very restrictively interpreted after the latest changes but for those who submitted CF83 in time it must surely be a uniform interpretation.

So definitely post how you got on
 
I found on this xtrapension.com website (in the faq) that seems to confirm the possibility that I mention :



---
B: WORKING: For 99% of people however, proving you paid 3 years in a row of National / Social Insurance is the key eligibility factor used by HMRC to determine if you can pay voluntary National Insurance contributions, which you need in order to maximise your UK StatePension.

Note: You are also eligible if you paid just 1 full year of National Insurance in the UK followed immediately by work - where you paid social insurance - in any European country to bring you over the 3 year threshold.
Table 3 Years Rule - XtraPension

  • "Years" in the table means years worked where you paid National/ Social Insurance.
  • "Europe" means an EU country, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland or Turkey.
  • Where social insurance was paid in Europe, this must have been immediately AFTER the UK year(s)

I have seen definitely on some forums some persons which were eligible with that rule.

I will let you know.
 
Do those EU years have to be immediately after the UK ones? Are Xtra penson saying this? Seem to recall different views on this too even in relation to Ireland. There was a guidance manaual doing the rounds too and was posted here and think it could be read this was so maybe can be found in some thread or even on google.
 
Last edited:
yes there should be a minimal gap between EU years after the UK ones, Xtra Pension is mentioning that in their website, ideally 0-1 days, and maximum 2 weeks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top