Public service pay scale
- Thread starter Delboy
- Start date
Whats the % rate for favourable assessments
Now now, we aren't allowed to ask those questions. Just be glad we have all those "World Class"TM Public Servants. All shortcomings are the fault of politicians and "The System".So after 18 months you get a €2,354 or 7.78928% pay rise.
The ludicrousness of this, for so many different reasons, tells us much about the public service in Ireland
I am just picturing the discussions that must have taken place to arrive at a 7.78928% value for the first increment.
What arguments must have been adduced to support 7.78929% and then the great case was made for 7.78927%. How many slices of late night pizza were consumed, how many spouses got the call that this was to be another allnighter, before the high powered negotiating teams agreed to split the difference and settle on 7.78928%
Their dedication to balancing the needs of the staff, the demands of the public purse, and the need to deliver quality services to the great Irish public is a lesson to us all.
The ludicrousness of this, for so many different reasons, tells us much about the public service in Ireland
I am just picturing the discussions that must have taken place to arrive at a 7.78928% value for the first increment.
What arguments must have been adduced to support 7.78929% and then the great case was made for 7.78927%. How many slices of late night pizza were consumed, how many spouses got the call that this was to be another allnighter, before the high powered negotiating teams agreed to split the difference and settle on 7.78928%
Their dedication to balancing the needs of the staff, the demands of the public purse, and the need to deliver quality services to the great Irish public is a lesson to us all.
Right Cremegg, Payscales were introduced to keep wages down. A Nurse leaves university to work in a hospital. The Nurse starts on Point 1 of the payscale and would progress up the payscale usually yearly. The thinking behind this (I reckon) is that a nurse starting out deserves less wages than a nurse working in the hospital for 10 years. Therefore the need for payscales.
However, I agree with you and payscales of the start should be abolished (they are so low). It is the same for clerical officers. So I could argue that if there are ten points on the scales, it takes at least 10 years to reach the maximum of the grade. (Grinning to myself, if it takes five years of university to become a doctor, why does it take at least ten years to get a decent wage as a nurse or clerical worker?). There is of course some middle ground where you could start a nurse or clerical officer mid way up the table, but that would cost the tax payer.
Delboy asked a pertinent question i.e. what is the per centage rate for successful assessments? To be honest, I don't know, but I have seen Line Managers refusing increments because of under performance.
And of course Purple threw in his tuppence worth:- Now now, we aren't allowed to ask those questions. Just be glad we have all those "World Class"TM Public Servants. All shortcomings are the fault of politicians and "The System". Of course, you are entitled to and allowed to ask such questions. Nobody is hiding.
However, I agree with you and payscales of the start should be abolished (they are so low). It is the same for clerical officers. So I could argue that if there are ten points on the scales, it takes at least 10 years to reach the maximum of the grade. (Grinning to myself, if it takes five years of university to become a doctor, why does it take at least ten years to get a decent wage as a nurse or clerical worker?). There is of course some middle ground where you could start a nurse or clerical officer mid way up the table, but that would cost the tax payer.
Delboy asked a pertinent question i.e. what is the per centage rate for successful assessments? To be honest, I don't know, but I have seen Line Managers refusing increments because of under performance.
And of course Purple threw in his tuppence worth:- Now now, we aren't allowed to ask those questions. Just be glad we have all those "World Class"TM Public Servants. All shortcomings are the fault of politicians and "The System". Of course, you are entitled to and allowed to ask such questions. Nobody is hiding.
Leper, by all international comparisons State employees in Ireland are overpaid at the lower end of their pay scale and relatively underpaid at the top of their pay scale.
Drawing comparisons between a clerical officer or nurse and a doctor don't do anything for your argument either; doctors are more skilled and fewer people are capable of attaining the qualification so the market rate for their labour will always be higher.
I do agree that pay scales are a nonsense as competence is not rewarded and incompetence and laziness are not punished. Nobody should ever get a cent extra simply because they are doing the same job for a year longer.
Many people have asked questions about the gross incompetence of some of the people working in our Public Sector and Health Service and their unwillingness to just do their job to the most basic standards (like washing their hands when required in a hospital or not leaving and then reentering a sterile environment in the same clothes). The answer is always a wall of sound about "Front Line Staff" and just how wonderful and selfless they are and how none of it is their fault. If they grew up and grew a set they could be part of the solution.
Drawing comparisons between a clerical officer or nurse and a doctor don't do anything for your argument either; doctors are more skilled and fewer people are capable of attaining the qualification so the market rate for their labour will always be higher.
I do agree that pay scales are a nonsense as competence is not rewarded and incompetence and laziness are not punished. Nobody should ever get a cent extra simply because they are doing the same job for a year longer.
Many people have asked questions about the gross incompetence of some of the people working in our Public Sector and Health Service and their unwillingness to just do their job to the most basic standards (like washing their hands when required in a hospital or not leaving and then reentering a sterile environment in the same clothes). The answer is always a wall of sound about "Front Line Staff" and just how wonderful and selfless they are and how none of it is their fault. If they grew up and grew a set they could be part of the solution.
Was there not a report out a couple of years ago which showed that the annual reviews of Public Service employees was running at well over 90% favourable i.e. practically everyone got an increment increase.
I'll have a google for it later.
In my experience, I have never heard or seen anyone not getting an increment increase. It's not even a consideration, it's a given.
(My OP comes from another post where a new poster was asking how increments worked and were awarded as they had just joined the CS/PS- it got pulled!)
I'll have a google for it later.
In my experience, I have never heard or seen anyone not getting an increment increase. It's not even a consideration, it's a given.
(My OP comes from another post where a new poster was asking how increments worked and were awarded as they had just joined the CS/PS- it got pulled!)
Coincidently it was interesting to see the article in yesterday's Irish Times - " Satisfaction with public servants at record high ".
This latest in a series of official surveys shows that 87 % said service levels were mostly meeting or exceeding expectations.
This is the 7th such survey & 2000 adults were surveyed between January & February this year.
Always good to see factual based info instead of speculation.
This latest in a series of official surveys shows that 87 % said service levels were mostly meeting or exceeding expectations.
This is the 7th such survey & 2000 adults were surveyed between January & February this year.
Always good to see factual based info instead of speculation.
Brendan Burgess
Founder
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"The general secretary of the [broken link removed], [broken link removed], said the survey, carried out for the department by Ipsos MRBI,was important for civil service bodies and provided valuable feedback for civil servants. He described the results as “very positive, but we are not complacent”."
An 87% satisfaction level is probably what you would expect.
When it comes to the Gardai or nurses or the Revenue or the Department of Social Welfare, the media and the public will almost only every raise the bad experiences. There have been shocking stories about the Gardai recently. But despite them, every day the Gardai are doing good work and it rarely gets reported. Or it gets reported as in the arrest of a significant figure yesterday, but it's not told in a "Well done Gardai" sort of way.
I would say that most people's interaction with the civil service is probably satisfactory. But that does not mean that it's efficient. Nor does it mean that they are earning their money.
How many civil servants get fired for not doing their job properly? Does it ever happen?
Brendan
Hi Brendan,
I haven't had a mind-bending experience in a while but just had one there!
Firefly.
Gerry Canning
Registered User
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Consistently over the years I have found public servants/public sector workers efficient and helpful . I cannot say that about the vaunted private sector. Never have I been short changed or robbed by the public sector. . I also believe that their wage rates help to set a level that the much vaunted private sector are forced to compete with, ie keeps private sector wages up ..
To my mind 87% is good,
To my mind 87% is good,
You must be either unemployed or on a low wage. Every time I check my payslip I feel rightly fleeced I'll tell you!
Yes, I work every Thursday and Friday in indentured service to the State. The Egyptians used a similar method to dig irrigation channels and medieval aristocracy used it to build walls for their castles. Back then there was no paper money so the labour had to be direct. Now there is paper money so it is indirect but it amounts to the same thing.
I have found them good when I get to talk to the right person and if they are open.
As for wages; anything that pushes them above the open market rate is bad for a country like Ireland which relies so much on international trade.
thedaddyman
Registered User
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My issue with pay scales is that increments are not seen by staff and unions as pay rises when in effect, that is what they are. I've no argument with a rise following a probationary period but anything else should be performance based and based on a companies/states ability to pay them.