Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come from?

Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

S.L.F said:
Exactly my thoughts, but also a go-slow refusing to answer phones work to rule and all the ways to make the govt sore.
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I think this mentality is why so many people have issues with the PS. If you did this in a private co you'd get the door and rightly so. No recognition of the customer.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

I think there's been a bit of an FIA/FIFA event here. I think it's pretty clear the Government "leaked" the proposal for the unpaid leave in full knowledge of what the public reaction could be. It was used as a lever and put the unions in a no win position.

All in all, a pretty good bit of politic from the Government, whether you agree with it or not.

On another note, I heard Jack O'Connor this morning, not entirely sure what planet he's on. His constant references to the extremely well off and the higher paid were presented without even the slightest irony of his own pay.

I know how pay cuts are going to affect the lower paid, I know how tough it's going to be, but surely the unions can see that having someone on a 6 figure salary talk about the higher paid elite they lose their moral high ground.

I was also reminded that the first body to come out and drive a wedge in society was the unions. It was they who early on tried to create the split between those on higher salaries and the "rest of us" (though they seem to think anyone above 50K is living in luxury). O'Connor was back playing this card.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Firefly said:
I think this mentality is why so many people have issues with the PS. If you did this in a private co you'd get the door and rightly so. No recognition of the customer.
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From what I've heard from a couple of public servants I know is that they wont be cooperating with political work that is not strictly part of their job descriptions e.g writing speeches for Ministers, providing statistics, answering queries via constituency offices etc, going to quasi political events outside office hours etc. I think the most interesting one will be how the Ministers will perform in public without their speechs and accompanying notes. Contrary to popular perception, speechs are written by the civil servants rather than the political advisors/cronies. To be honest, most policital advisors are not up to the job, so watch out for a lot of foot in mouth type statements in the coming months.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Firefly said:
I think this mentality is why so many people have issues with the PS. If you did this in a private co you'd get the door and rightly so. No recognition of the customer.
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Not true , there was a work to rule in Bank of Ireland in the early nineties and nobody was fired !
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Latrade said:
(though they seem to think anyone above 50K is living in luxury)
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Well that's a bizarre stance.

Only a few weeks ago there was an (I assume union sponsored/associated) newspaper advert pleading for the public's empathy stating that '4 in 10 public servants earn less than 40K you know' (paraphrasing, but I think figures are accurate - confirmation?)

So by implication, less than 40K is regarded as not well off, but over 50K is loaded?!
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f


By all accounts it was the other way around. The Unions announced the leave proposal and said a deal could be done on the back of this and hence that was why they called off the strike. Cowan obviously felt something could be done as well but many on the Government side were less convinced. Both sides were guilty of really mis-reading the public on this.

As for Jack O'Connor, I loved the way he said the Unions weren't powerful in this Country because all the media was State Owned or privately owned right wing and the Unions didn't have access. And yet the same right wing media was giving him 10 minutes to give his thoughts. Not the media's fault he used his time to sound deluded.

As an aside, why are pensioners untouchable but every other recepitant of social welfare faces cuts. There are some very wealthy pensioners out there that could be targeted. Suppose they need to save something for next year and the year after!
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Deiseblue said:
Not true , there was a work to rule in Bank of Ireland in the early nineties and nobody was fired !
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Banks are now state companies. They were never open to market forces like small businesses as they are licence and regulated by the state and there are massive barriers to entry to the industry.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Purple said:
Banks are now state companies. They were never open to market forces like small businesses as they are licence and regulated by the state and there are massive barriers to entry to the industry.
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+1
Saying AIB, BOI or even the ESB are examples of private companies is BS.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

You are giving the government a lot of credit here! I find it hard to believe they were that cunning. Afterall, incompetence is their call card.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Purple said:
Banks are now state companies. They were never open to market forces like small businesses as they are licence and regulated by the state and there are massive barriers to entry to the industry.
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An argument you've made before !
Did you perhaps notice that I said the action in question took place in the early nineties , a time when I'm sure you would agree that the Banks were very much private companies only answerable to their shareholders !
The Bank's currently are immensely indebted to the state who nonetheless are minority shareholders.
If they were state owned as you say would AIB have dared to appoint an insider as CEO over the Government's stated opposition - I don't think so.
If AIB were a state company would they have dared pay the first tranche of the 3% due under the National Wage Agreement towards 2016 - I don't think so , a payment that BOI also made much earlier.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f


The argument is that the banks are not and were never typical private sector companies. Alot of their work and pay practices came from the public sector. Albeit, that has changed in recent years. I remember working in a non-unionised part of one of the big two when they restructured and merged with a unionised part. It was staggering to see the differences in work practices and pay.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

Deiseblue said:
Yes.
AIB
Junior Doctors
Consultants
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? Aren't the last 2 PS and the first falls under the same category as BOI?

In fairness work to rule tends to occur in protected sectors which pretty much monopolise their industry. It just so happens that in Ireland these tend be PS or semi-state utilities and - back in the day - banks.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f


That's what I was thinking.

Sunny said:
As an aside, why are pensioners untouchable but every other recepitant of social welfare faces cuts. There are some very wealthy pensioners out there that could be targeted. Suppose they need to save something for next year and the year after!
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The pensioners are getting away with it now because there are relatively few of them. People retiring in 10/20/30 years time can expect a retirement age of 70 and a means tested OAP.

Also they've a lot of time on their hands. Try cutting free medical care to some old bag on a €70k a year pension and you'll never hear the end of it, better to cut back on children's hospitals as far as they're concerned!
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

liaconn said:
Will turn against us? Where have you been living???????? As for thinking bigger. Not a lot of that in evidence over the past few days, particularly from Brian Cowen.
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Why all the question marks?

I live in a world where people don't really care about PS wages, unless it directly affects them. Most people are more interested in what the cut to SW will be, grants for farmers, child benefit etc. Most people watch the news on the union talks with a mild interest. If you think the public are angry now, then you ain't seen nothing yet. Wait for the reaction if public servant strikes become common place. This will have direct consequences for all of Irish society, then you'll see some real anger.
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f


I agree. When the Breaded Brethren drone on about fairness why don’t they bring up the fact that public sector families with young children are being hit with these painful but necessary cuts while pensioners with no mortgage, no childcare costs, free travel, medical cards etc are being left untouched. Why not cut pay so that pensions are reduced and get rid of the pension levy.

Yes, I do think the pension levy is a pay cut by another name (and have said so many times on AAM).
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f


The question marks are because I'm frankly amazed that you think the private sector haven't been making their feelings very clear. And how you can seriously state that people don't really care about PS wages well??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f



How have the private sector showed how it really feels? and who in your opinion are the "private sector"? The cleaners,the delivery people, the farmers, the butchers, the chippies, the general operative, the shop assitant, the factory line worker, the bar person, the list could go on. Every job that isn't paid for by the state is done a a person that works in the "Private Sector".


The people on the street aren't talking about the trade unions and the PS, they'll be talking about them though if more strikes ensue.

So again, who in your mind are the private sector and how have they made their feelings clearly shown?
 
Re: Pub Sector get 12 days unpaid leave, where are the following years cuts to come f

I am very disappointed to have to take another pay cut, particularly as parts of An Bord Snip have been shelved because the government lacks bottle. However, I think the unions should just take it on the chin and go back to the government in the new year and proceed to put together the long term plan for reform. Otherwise, the same thing is going to happen at next year's budget. There will be another pay cut.
They should ask the government straight out how much money they want to reduce the PS bill by in the next 3 budgets. If this money can be saved without having to actually cut pay scales at least this debate won't be happening every year.
 
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