PTSB ptsb's letter of 2007 to brokers

Discussion in 'Tracker Redress' started by Suz2015, 16 May 2016.

  1. Suz2015

    Suz2015 Frequent Poster

    From: Intermediary Support Area []
    Sent: 06 December 2007 14:23
    To: undisclosed-recipients:
    Subject: New Mortgage Pricing

    permanent tsb

    Intermediary Mortgage Centre

    56/59 St Stephen's Green

    Dublin 2

    As you are undoubtedly aware there has been a significant increase in the cost of funds and as a result,permanenttsbwill be changing the structure of our variable rate mortgage products and introducing new mortgage pricing over the coming weeks. Tracker rates will still track the ECB, however we are making changes to our price promises.

    This re-pricing is being undertaken on a phased basis.

    - We will be increasing tracker pricing for all new applicants and some existing customers by between 0.10% and 0.15%. Rip tracker products will be increased by a further 0.10%.

    - While our tracker products will still track the ECB, we will no longer include a specific price promise regarding the rate that they mature to after Year 1.


    2. Introduction of new <60% LTV band for residential business.

    From February 08we are introducing a new competitively priced tracker product, for new business, for loans >€200k and LTV<60%. The rate will be ECB + 0.75%.

    This product will alsobe available to all existing residential customers who have an LTV of <60% and a balance outstanding of >€200K from 10th December 07.

    Please note any customer rolling off discounted rates or reaching the end of their fixed rate with no specific price promise will automatically avail of this rate (ECB + 0.75%) if they meet the criteria outlined above with effect from 10th December 07.

    3. Maturity of all fixed rates and discounted variable rate mortgages

    From 10th December any existing customer’s loan that matures from a fixed rate or discounted variable rate mortgage will roll into a new set of tracker rates – see roll on tracker rates in table above.

    The roll on rate will be determined as it is today, using the original loan amount to determine price band and current LTV.

    The two exceptions to this are customers who applied for:-

    (A) A fixed rate for 1, 2 or 3 years mortgage from 17th April 07 to 12th Nov 07.

    These customers were given a specific price promise and will therefore mature to today’s lower tracker rates.

    (B) A LTV tracker mortgage from 17th April to 17th Dec 07

    These customers were given a specific price promise and will therefore mature to today’s lower tracker rates.

    *Please notematuring customers without a specific price promise, and with an LTV >95%, will roll to ECB +1.25% and then in February they will roll to ECB+1.3%.


    From 17th December, all new business tracker applications will no longer have a specific Year 2 price promise. Instead they will roll into the “appropriate Tracker rate at maturity”.

    5. Oneyear fixed RATE NOW AVAILABLE ON 100% mortgage

    From 10th December, the 1 year fixed rate will be available to all First Time Buyer customers including 100% applicants (subject to the new lending criteria).

    Treatment of Pipeline

    Customers will need to be issued with their permanent tsb loan offer prior to the launch of the new pricing in February in order to avail of the old rates. Customers who have had their loan offer issued, can avail of a grace period to draw down at the lower rates and details will be communicated in January 08.

    Should you have any queries regarding the contents of this email, please contact your Intermediary Development Manager who will be happy to assist.

    Best regards

    Therese Meegan

    Intermediary Support Manager

    What do you make of this email sent by PTSB in December 2007? Has it any standing or is it like the KBC leaflet?
    ella likes this.
  2. peemac

    peemac Frequent Poster

    What it does show is that the phrase "standard variable rate" was not in use in mortgage banking at that time.
    Suz2015 likes this.
  3. Thomas

    Thomas Frequent Poster

    I, like many others (I assume) would have drawn down their discounted tracker before this was issued (drew it down in Feb 2007) and so they seem to be moving the goal posts for existing customers after they had signed up to the mortgage and without telling the customer. this must be in breach of the consumer protection code.
  4. Lightening

    Lightening Frequent Poster

    Wardy7 likes this.
  5. Lightening

    Lightening Frequent Poster

    KBC (all fixed will roll to tracker thread) it's it's an almost identical situation even the roll off rate of 1.25 is the same.

    They Pulled a fast one!! The options letter should not have been sent! KBC did not send an options letter but didn't roll everyone to the tracker (Variable ) and rolled to their SVR
  6. Brendan Burgess

    Brendan Burgess Founder

    They are free to increase the pricing for all new applicants.

    They can't increase the pricing for "existing customers" who have a specific tracker rate, so they must be referring here to existing customers who are not on trackers who want to move to trackers?

    So, is this a reference to the 1 year discounted rate?

    This could easily be interpreted that the 0.2% one year discount from say .8% , means that the write of the letter thought that these trackers would roll onto .6% after one year.

    While the contract did say that the product would roll onto the then prevailing tracker rate, in my view, the the name of the product should take precedence over the specific legal terms and conditions.

  7. fitz2017

    fitz2017 Registered User

    What about people who went onto a fixed rate initially but there contract is silent as to whether they would go onto a tracker at the end of the fixed rate? We signed up in 2007 to a two year fixed rate- it would appear that these accounts were set up to default to a tracker as happened in our case, albeit for 5 days (see thread below). The wording of the email suggests that all fixed rates were set up to go to a tracker at the end of the fixed rate term.
  8. Stitcher

    Stitcher Frequent Poster

    Brendan, Suz,
    Concerning the details of the letter to brokers: what on earth do they mean by a "price promise" ?
    This means that in one fell swoop they changed what a Tracker was. They kept the name "discounted tracker" but changed what it meant by a condition in the contract. That surely is deception? I know that they did not explain that to me. I would not have taken a one year tracker. I'd have looked for a standard Tracker, from PTSB or elsewhere. If I had known that they were fundamentally changing what a Tracker was, and that the discounted tracker I was signing up for was in fact like a one year fixed, I would not have taken the product.

    If they no longer wanted to offer a standard Tracker for the life of the mortgage, then why did they not rename it a one year tracker? My contract calls my mortgage a "discounted tracker" not a "one year tracker".

    If they fight the legal arguments that the contract says the rate after discount is not guaranteed, then surely we can fight the case that they mis sold something, masqueradeing as something else.
    Discounted implies discounted from a base rate, no matter what the contract says.
  9. WhiteCoat

    WhiteCoat Frequent Poster

    Just wondering are we certain that the details in the first post are authentic? Do we have proof that PTSB did actually issue this notice?