"ptsb wants to know if my employer is claiming the EWSS for anyone?"

Brendan Burgess

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
52,115
A friend of mine who is not receiving the PUP has been asked by ptsb if their employer is receiving it for any other employee.

Update: ptsb wanted to know if his employer was getting the EWSS - Employment Wage Subsidy Scheme.

He thinks that this is very unfair. They are receiving the PUP for one or two other employees.

I don't think it is unfair myself, but is it common practice?

Will they refuse him the mortgage?

Brendan
 
Last edited:
Are PTSB using it as an indicator of the company's viability and therefore the applicant's risk of ending up on PUP or out of a job?
 
I would challenge PTSB on this question.

How is a mortgage applicant expected to be party to all the finances of the company they work for?

I don't believe the bank have a right to this information when it does not pertain to the applicant.

They are chancing their arm here.
 
The employee could easily fall foul of confidentiality aspects of the contract with the employer by answering this question. It is wholly inappropriate for the lender to put the customer in this position.
 
I think a list of companies that have received employment supports is a public record published on the revenue site. So if needed that could be searched for the company name without identifying individual employees
 
Brendan Burgess said:
Not sure. It was probably the EWSS.
Click to expand...
It'd make more sense. There's a lot of misinformation in some of the answers above.

It's common across all banks. As mentioned earlier, there's a published list of all employers who availed of the TWSS last year, so the information is easily accessible.

Charlie Weston and Michael Dowling covered it earlier this year:

m.independent.ie

Broker says lenders are using wage subsidy scheme to refuse mortgages

Lenders have been accused of using the State wage subsidy scheme to “blackball” mortgage applicants.
m.independent.ie m.independent.ie
 
Thirsty said:
So why ask the applicant?

In any event, I don't believe it's fair or reasonable criteria to apply.
Click to expand...
I’ve seen examples of banks doing this even prior to Covid.

For example, looking at the employer’s accounts via the CRO and concluding that the applicant’s position is too tenuous.

Like many things in life, the management of risk by banks went too far one way in the early 2000s, but now it’s gone too far the other way.
 
Thirsty said:
@Zenith63 - there's no authority for the bank to request that information and employer is under no obligation to provide it.

It is shockingly overbearing behaviour on the lender's part.
Click to expand...

What exactly do you mean there is no authority for the bank to request that information? Banks attach risk weightings to the employment status and employment sectors of loan applicants as is so it seems reasonable to factor in something like TWSS in the current environment. Granted, I wouldn't have much confidence in the banks doing this in a nuanced manner.

You're right though, the employer can just choose to not answer the question. This would probably trigger a review of the TWSS recipient public listing by the bank. This becomes problematic when the information hasn't been forthcoming by the applicant/applicant's employer as there is no opportunity to provide context (e.g. where the support was not actually needed and was subsequently refunded etc.)
 
If the information is in the public domain, that should suffice.

Making, what are, at best, conjectures and which are completely outside the applicants control is outrageous.

What will be next?
 
Thirsty said:
Making, what are, at best, conjectures and which are completely outside the applicants control is outrageous.

What will be next?
Click to expand...

Ehhh, a lot of underwriting is based completely on factors "outside the applicant's control". Banks often don't lend to persons employed in particular sectors because of the perceived risk. Employment stability is a core credit risk consideration.
 
You are not the data controller of this information, your company is. The financial institution (no matter which one) are not entitled to this data. If the company did supply the bank with this data it could be a possible breach of the data protection act. Thread carefully!
 
Like many genuine questions, this is getting farcical at this stage.

@Brendan Burgess your friend will be asked by the lender (PTSB is not the only one) to get a letter from their employer stating firstly whether or not they (employer) are currently receiving EWSS. If they are, they will be asked to state if the applicants job and / or salary will be impacted if EWSS supports are withdrawn. They don't ask for the names of those employees for which EWSS is being claimed.

If they don't want to do this, they will need to go to another lender. Or just get on with life without a mortgage.
 
Last edited:
RedOnion said:
they [employer] are currently receiving EWSS. If they are, they will be asked to state if the applicants job and / or salary will be impacted
Click to expand...
Which is a different kettle of fish.

The fact of a company being in receipt of a state subsidy is in the public domain.

What employer is going to respond yes to 'will <employee> lose their job'? Silly nonsense.

The OP, however, was that the applicant was being asked if other employees in the company were in receipt of a subsidy.

Edit for clarity
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top