Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 months

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

Welfarite said:

How does your proposal make this dministratively easier or more effective?

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Running one line of simple SQL code between two tables in a database would save thousands of letters being sent and all that goes with it. This is basic 'Data Processing', yet it appears is not even done each year to check PPSNs in P35 Returns against PPSNs of people receiving dole payments.

BTW: It would also allow children of 'Irish' parents to be checked. I have not heard of 'Irish' parents getting one of these letters, yet I know of several families who have emigrated in the last couple of years.

I am sick of getting the foorm signed by my employer ever 3 months just because my wife is not Irish, no one else in the company has ever even gotten one!

Feel free to add my comments into the SW Suggestion Box, I will allow you do keep any gratuity!

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

Yoy presume that Revenue and SW use the same database systems. Also, you presume that SW are not obliged to review a % of all claims (and it is not true that 'Irish' CB claims are not reviewed), especially those claims that have proven in the past to be open to abuse; there is plenty of evidence that non-Irish claimants defraud the system on a greater scle than Irish claimants, that is why they are targeted every three months. Live with the minor inconvenience in the knowledge that SW are trying to ensure that your taxes are paid to the right people. I don't understand your comment about the 'SW suggestion box' or 'gratuity'?

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

Running one line of simple SQL code between two tables in a database would save thousands of letters being sent and all that goes with it.

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My understanding is that there is data protection implications of using the revenue data and comparing it to the Social Welfare data. Ir seems like a massive mistake in the data protection implementation if that is the case.

Personally I belive that everyone who takes any form of social welfare payment (child benifit, or any other) should have to opt in and in doing so agree that the Dept of Social Welfare have the right to investigate all data held on them by revenue (and possibly the depatment of justice, Garda, criminal assest bureau etc.). This would make checking for blatant fraud much simpler. I for one would have no issue signing up to this.

I get so annoyed when I listen to politicians talking about how they are starting to look into the possibilities of implementing ne computer systems blah blah. There is only 4.5 million people living here. In data processing terms this is such a small quanitiy of data as to be negligent.

Gtec

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

I don't assume you use the same systems, although it would save the tax payer money if you did. It would a simple matter of exporting a file from one and importing it into the other. Although, I know from dealing with semi state mainframe programmers they like to put road blocks into simple operations. It would be at most, a few hours work on both sides, when you take the countless meetings out of the equation.

While there maybe more evidence that "that non-Irish claimants defraud the system on a greater scle", it also standards to reason that a trawl through Irish claimants (child allowance) every few years would save a few bob and yearly for the P35 Return/Dole Claims.

A Suggestion Box is used by many companies for their workers to made suggestions to improve their service/costs, often giving a reward for the best ideas.

Gtec, AFAIK the are exemptions for SW/Revenue in the Data Protection Acts for searching for Tax/SW fraud. As you say your self the volume of data is very small in today's terms. Several years ago I was involved in some of SW systems using MS SQL and VB6/.NET, the days of an island like Ireland needing the power of a modern mainframe (still many old clunkers in use) for most 'large' systems is gone.

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

Welfarite.. it may be easy to issue out the letters from the existing system.. but doesnt it cost money for the paper, ink, postage each way etc.. Then I assume that each letter has to be opened, checked and filed on return, taking up a lot of time for the personnel working in sw office. This labour time equals cost in my opinion when a simple software check between 2 databases confirms the same information.. Hence why i think there are savings to be made here.

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

Even though PAYE/PRSI payments are sent each month by the employers to the Revenue Commissioners they do not know who the money refers to until the end of the tax year. The Forms 35L (Ithink) are being sent to the Revenue by employers at the moment covering 2009.

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

I get these aswell. I am a cross border worker working in the north and my husband works in the south. He has to get it signed by his employer. We were late getting it back last time and had payment stopped. Thankfully they did reinstate it and back payed it too. but it is a real nuisance.

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

i am EU citizen and i receive every three months a letter, too. at this stage, i had to fill out a form with doctor and creche details. the last 6 months, they asked me twice for my employer details, too. i can't think of any details, they haven't got of me yet.

also, someone said if you sent it by registered post it ends up in the wrong dept. - the postal address states clearly where it is suppose to go and so far, my return letters where received. knowing of people who have sent it by standard post and SW claims it was not received or not received within 21 days (another subject i could go into), got their CB payment stopped. a risk i can't take, so i rather pay € 5,70 for registered post.

for the record - i am living and working here for ten years. i really don't see the point in contacting the same people again and again. this is not anti fraud check, this is harrassment. and if anyone wants to tell me, that non-irish citizens are more likely to defraud the irish system, provide facts that irish citizens have never committed fraud!

non of my irish co-workers, neighbors and friends have received a letter to this day - not a single one.

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

I am moving this to the LOS forum.

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

When the time comes I will do the CB claiming as the father. Can't be having this carry on of harassing mothers who happen to be not Irish citizens.

I assume there is nothing to legally stop the father claiming the CB?

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

From the SW site:

Anti-fraud checks

EU/EEA citizens and Swiss national covered by EU Regulations are required to certify every 3 months that they continue to work in this State.
Non-EU/EEA citizens are also required to certify every 3 months that they and their children continue to live in this State.

and

WHO IS ENTITLED TO CHILD BENEFIT

Child Living Full-Time With Mother/Step-Mother
Child Benefit is paid to the mother (or step-mother).
Child Living Full-Time With Father/Step-Father Only
Child Benefit is paid to the father (or step-father).
Child Not Residing Full-Time With Either Parent

1. Parents residing in separate households
   Child Benefit is payable to the parent with whom the child resides the majority of the time. If the child resides 50% of the time with each parent, the mother is paid.
2. Parents Dead/Children Abandoned/Child Fostered
   Child Benefit is payable to the woman who has care and charge of the child in the household in which the child lives (or the head of the household where there is no such woman in the household).
3. children In Institutions
   Where a child is placed in an Institution on a voluntary basis, Child Benefit is payable to the person who would normally get the benefit - provided that person is making adequate contributions towards the cost of the child's maintenance in the institution.
   Where the child is placed in an Institution through a Court Order, Child Benefit is only payable if the child returns home on a regular basis.

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

I think checks like this are good.

This country is rife with benefit fraud, and anything that stops crooks stealing money from the taxpayer has to be welcomed.

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

This country is rife with benefit fraud, and anything that stops crooks stealing money from the taxpayer has to be welcomed.

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across the board, i totally agree - not based on nationality though!

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

+1.. if it was not based solely on nationality.. then I would have accepted the procedure and not opened this post. The fact that it is only for non-irish mums is not fair as I assume there are many irish mums also after leaving the country, yet not requested to fill this form. All or nothing!

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

The review policy is based on stats for potential of fraudulent claims and not on nationality. The potential for non-irish mothers to claim CB while not resident here is currently targetted by SW as 'high risk' by SW and a policy was formulated to review such claimants every 3 months. And it gets results, well-diocumented. I honestly don't buy the argument that it should be dropped because it is causing inconvenience to some; after all is it a fairly substantial monthly payment that does not require much effort for a claimant to collect very month for up to 20 years.

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

jaybird said:

I don't see how it causes inconvenience either. I get the form, sign it and drop it back in the post in the enclosed paid envelope. Hardly harassment and bother is it?

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lucky one - yours never got lost or delayed

The review policy is based on stats for potential of fraudulent claims and not on nationality

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not true, check SW online, they specifically state that they target EU nationals. also if you call them up they are not shy to confirm it either, regardless if Customer Care Agent talks to you or higher Management

I honestly don't buy the argument that it should be dropped because it is causing inconvenience to some

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no one said it should be dropped. however it should be done in a fair, transparent way, across the board. not targetting people because of their nationality!

that does not require much effort

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my HR dept. is sick to their teeth to fill out those forms every three months for a couple of hundred people who work here for 5yrs+
I am sick of it cause if I don't send it by registered post, SW claims they didnt get it on time and stop payment (been there, done it, no thanks!)

As mentioned in a previous post, there is no efficiency in sending a form out to people every three months who pay their PRSI every single month and which is well recorded too. This is my tax money they are wasting and going by all the budget announcements, this state needs money so why waste it so badly!

Also, if this state does fraud checks, it needs to be done regardless of nationality. It is a joke if this state thinks irish people do not defraud the system! There are generations growing in this country of families who never once worked cause they know all the lool pols in the system to get paid regardless. It's a shamble!

Oh and it is against the law to pick on non-irish people regardless if it is a company or a state/ government/ dept.!

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

Would love to see it tested on Irish mums and I bet this forum would be inundated with complaints!

One thing that would be great to see would an online means to confirm that the returned post had been processed (similar to the passport post).. at least this would allow people see that their documents are received, processed and hence not impact their payments

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

jaybird said:

The only people who need to get it filled in by a work place are those who are not EU nationals. Do you really have hundreds of non-eu nationals in your workplace that all get these every 3 months?

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My wife is an EU national and still needs to fill it by employer

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

It hardly seems like it 3 months has passed, when yet another form has arrived. The wife is convinced that the country is run my money wasting incompetent civil servants. Who have nothing better to do than send out the same form every few weeks.

Re: Proof of residency form from Dept of Social Welfare for Child Benefit every 3 mon

Until they come up with a better system then this one must continue. The amount of fraud that would be perpetrated on the State in the absence of some form of control would be astronomical. It's bad enough as it is.