Probate Fees - do these fees seem reasonable?

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galwegian44

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My wife is the executor for my widowed mother-in-law's will consisting of a property worth €350,000 and a bank account with less than €1,000. Her will is approx. 2 paragraphs stipulating that her only surviving daughter receives 50% of the estate and the 3 children of her deceased son receive a one third share of the remaining 50%.

There is a requirement to pay Revenue 22.5% of the value as my mother-in-law spent the last 4 years of her life in a nursing home on the Fair Deal program.

The solicitor (upon request) has provided an estimate of costs as follows:

A. Fixed and certain costs
1. Probate fee payable to Probate Office, assuming Estate value of less than €500,000 € €350.00
2. Commissioner for Oaths fees: € 20.00
3. Town Agents fees: € 61.50

B. Legal costs likely to be incurred in dealing with your case
1. Solicitor’s professional fee (approx.) re extraction of Grant of Probate: € 7,000.00 - €7,500.00
2. General charges in respect of postage, phones, etc. € 120.00

C. The amount of VAT to be charged in respect of the above matter is 23% in respect of the legal costs referred to at item B.

Does this seem reasonable and/or do you have any recommendations as to how to progress? Thanks in advance.
 
galwegian44 said:
1. Solicitor’s professional fee (approx.) re extraction of Grant of Probate: € 7,000.00 - €7,500.00
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DIY probate as suggested in here several times and save the estate thousands.

Does anyone search the forum or look at previous posts?

Say €6,000 plus 23% VAT = €7,380 savings. You still have the fixed costs listed in A, but the Probate Office fee for a private individual is higher than what they charge solicitors.
 
The house will have to be valued, check with the solicitor if that is included in his fees or not. Likewise there will also be a need for a tax clearance cert from Revenue at the end, again, check if that is included.

It does strike me as a little high but do you have the time and patience to work through it yourself. Bear in mind as well that if you fills the forms wrong, when you resubmit (from what I've been told), you go to the back of the queue and start again.
 
The valuation of the property is not included in the solicitor's fees. I've put together a checklist for doing this and it doesn't seem that daunting as it's a simple will and all beneficiaries are on board. This is what I have so far, any additions greatly appreciated:

Gather Documentation​

  • Obtain the Death certificate.
  • Locate the Original will and any codicils.
  • Collect details of all assets and liabilities.
  • Gather personal details for all beneficiaries, including names, addresses, PPS numbers, and details of inheritances
  • Arrange for the assets to be valued

Complete the Statement of Affairs (Probate) SA.2 Form​

  • This is a Revenue form completed online via MyAccount or Revenue Online Service (ROS).
  • The executor’s own MyAccount or ROS account is used to complete and submit the SA.2 Form.
  • You will need information about the deceased, assets, liabilities, and beneficiaries.
  • Submit the SA.2 form online; a Notice of Acknowledgement (Probate) will be generated in your Revenue inbox

Complete the Personal Application Form​

  • Download and fill out the Personal Application Form.
  • Prepare supporting documents:
  • Original death certificate
  • Photocopy of the will and codicils (do not send the original)
  • Notice of Acknowledgement (Probate) from Revenue.
  • Send the completed Personal Application Form and supporting documents to the Probate Office or your local District Probate Registry.
  • Wait for an acknowledgement and appointment date from the Probate Office

Attend an Appointment​

  • The executor (your wife) must attend in person with:
  • Photo ID
  • The original will and codicils
  • The appointment is private (not in a courtroom).
  • The probate official will review documents and may ask questions.
  • The executor will swear an oath or affirmation confirming the accuracy of the application

Receiving the Grant of Probate​

  • If everything is in order, the Grant of Probate will be issued, usually within a few weeks.
  • This document allows the executor to access and distribute the assets according to the will.


Miscellaneous​

Completing your gift or Inheritance Tax return (IT38)

https://www.revenue.ie/en/gains-gif...ift-or-inheritance-tax-return-it38/index.aspx
 
Few weeks is optimistic, you're potentially looking at 6 months end to end and longer if it is the Dublin office. I'm told that can take up to a year there, due to the volume. I'd only do this as well if the family all get along, if there is a potentially troublesome individual, let the solicitor handle it.

Given there is only a house and 4 beneficiaries, the funds of the sale will go into a solicitors account so you need to consider how that gets paid out

TBH, whilst the solicitor costs are a bit OTT, it's a lot of work to save each of the beneificaries a grand or so when the maths are done. Is it worth all the hassle if your wife is getting nothing out of it. Apologies if I misread the family structure. Even if she is a beneficiary, it's still going to be a small saving for what she gets
 
Peanuts20 said:
it's a lot of work to save each of the beneificaries a grand or so
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Thanks Peanuts20 for the reply.

I've seen this perspective quite a bit on AAM when I searched previous posts on this topic. I'm a bit shocked that people are willing to pay excessive costs because the overall cost is divided by the no. of beneficiaries. An excessive cost is an excessive cost regardless and my DNA is primed to always find something better....even if it is only on principle. Let's reject this behaviour.

Also, the beneficiaries are my wife, 2 nephews and a niece so I have no issues putting in the leg work to reduce the costs for all of these. An extra grand will go a long way for 3 of these who are negotiating house purchases and wedding costs right now (not my wife thankfully )

Thanks again
 
The best way your wife can reduce the legal costs is to put in a little time with the solicitor (whether with this solicitor or another) clearly defining the scope of work and agreeing to meet fair payment terms, rather than using the solicitor as a form of free working capital. If the solicitor is assured that their main probate fee will be paid within a month of the probate (i.e. that the solicitor will not be extending credit for an uncertain period while waiting for the house to sell), this will certainly allow them to charge less -because they don't have to price in that credit risk.
 
Those fees sound outrageous to me for what is a very simple situation - one house, small amount of cash and 4 beneficiaries across 2 families.
I was involved in a probate about 4 years ago where the deceased was intestate and there were about 15 beneficiaries across 5 families some living abroad. Assets were a house, a car and a moderate amount of cash. Fees were about 2500 plus VAT as far as I can remember. To be honest, it is usually a paralegal or admin person in the solicitors office that does a lot of the lifting with these assisted by the executor who gathers all of the information and passes it on.

Would you consider doing it yourself? It is not very complicated, probably budget spending an hour a week for a couple of months. Otherwise, I would at the very least shop around for a better quote.
 
@galwegian44:

You could probably go into business doing simple probate cases with what you've outlined here. I can't see why you would consider a solicitor to do anything for you. We've done this with a more complicated case and as long as there are no disputes or opportunities for tax evasion or outright fraud then you don't need a third party.
Bear in mind that if you do use a solicitor you still have to gather all the information they are going to use and that they will be reverting to you with requests for more information. As executor you still have to do work and if you don't then the solicitor will charge you for every letter they send and receive. This in addition to the quote, just like the valuation fees will be additional.

BTW each valuation I got cost around e300. A guy will come and may or may not look in every nook and cranny (they are usually thinking about the sale later down the road). But they give you whatever figure they think Revenue will likely accept which, in my case, were admittedly over-valuations. In one case the guy's first reaction was that the place would not be 'an easy sale' but Revenue wouldn't recognise that. Higher valuation means higher fees and higher CAT exposure without any basis in inherent value.
 
"I can't see why you would consider a solicitor to do anything for you. you don't need a third party....they give you whatever figure they think Revenue will likely accept which, in my case, were admittedly over-valuations...Higher valuation means higher fees and higher CAT exposure"

Actual LMAO.
 
>Actual LMAO.

When you stop laughing maybe you could tell us what of what I wrote made you laugh so much? What is objectively wrong about what I wrote and what have you got to help the OP?
 
You said it's easy to do a "simple" probate case without a solicitor while then confessing that you overpaid tax on foot of an overvaluation and some piffle about what Revenue would accept.
 
>Most estate agents offer free valuations for probate, family law purposes etc.

How do I find one of these free valuers?
 
>You said it's easy to do a "simple" probate case without a solicitor while then confessing that you overpaid tax on foot of an overvaluation and some piffle about what Revenue would accept.

I related what a valuer said to me and while I do not have a recording of the conversation you dismiss it as 'piffle' even though you don't know a thing about the circumstances. And if you think I overpaid tax then please tell me how much I overpaid, in your professional opinion (I haven't actually filed yet but that just a fact and you don't need those things). Let's hear your deep wisdom on how you know exactly what something is definitively worth.

And by the way, it was easy to do a simple case without a solicitor.
 
Hillwalker123 said:
it is usually a paralegal or admin person in the solicitors office that does a lot of the lifting with these assisted by the executor who gathers all of the information and passes it on.
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Would also be my experience - however, depending on the issues and people involved, it can be worthwhile having a buffer between exec & beneficiaries.

I've successfully acted as exec for more than one estate; but in another instance happily paid a solicitor when beneficiaries threatened to act the maggot.

Horses for courses.
 
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