I realise there is a thread on Poroton Blocks. But as they are relatively new I'm wondering has any one built and is living in such a house. Am particularly interested in anyone having used the T9 or even the T12 as we are hoping to build in the next year using hopefully the T9 Perlite.
Poroton Block, T9
- Thread starter angela59
- Start date
Hi Sueellen,
Yes I did - mostly they go into the pros and cons of the blocks and uvalues. Would like to hear of anyone that has moved into and living in house - to see how it is weathering and if these blocks expensive and all as they are - are in fact what the "read" to be?
Yes I did - mostly they go into the pros and cons of the blocks and uvalues. Would like to hear of anyone that has moved into and living in house - to see how it is weathering and if these blocks expensive and all as they are - are in fact what the "read" to be?
M
Maggie55
Guest
Hi Angela,
We're also looking to build our own home at the moment and have considered poroton. I've been to the FBT's site and wasn't impressed when I saw pictures of previous projects. Some were okay but others showed dampness: [broken link removed]
I know of some people who have considered poroton. All have instead decided upon other building materials. I'm currently sourcing other methods of energy efficient building such as timber frame, ytong, and ICF.
We're also looking to build our own home at the moment and have considered poroton. I've been to the FBT's site and wasn't impressed when I saw pictures of previous projects. Some were okay but others showed dampness: [broken link removed]
I know of some people who have considered poroton. All have instead decided upon other building materials. I'm currently sourcing other methods of energy efficient building such as timber frame, ytong, and ICF.
What specifically from the above link shows dampness?
I'm a little confused given that the link is to 2 pictures of a building under construction.
M
Maggie55
Guest
During the construction stage it’s obvious that there is water lodging within the cavities of the poroton block and cannot escape. With reference to the bottom picture, the points around the house that show dampness are above the door frame, on the first row of blocks in the bottom right and also on the left hand side above the rectangular window. The dampness can easily be identified by the colour difference. Given the fact that there is water lodgement on the first row that has not yet dissipated how long will it take for the water to dry out completely?
Z
z108
Guest
Looks to me from the photograph like the building either has a touch of rain on the higher parts or the bricks there are slightly darker but I cant see anything I would call dampness as in rising damp ? I've seen houses appearing wetter than that which were built the standard way with ordinary blocks and solids.
I presume you can tell from the pictures when it last rained?
Also, if you look at the pictures under the gallery section you'll notice that in several of them there are individual blocks in the middle of sections that are a different colour. Are we to assume that water is selectively lodging in certain blocks?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I feel that you may have been somewhat hasty in basing your decision on those photos. Have you other evidence to suggest it is unsuitable for our climate? Has the IAB cert been withdrawn because of confirmed issues with the system?
The main reason I can imagine someone would not choose it is price, its pricey to say the least. During my investigations I've found ICF to be much cheaper when going for comparable u-values on each system. ICF has its down sides too however which is a discussion for another thread.
To the OP, have you contacted FBT and asked them for the names and numbers of people that are living in poroton houses. They gave me several when I spoke to them a few weeks ago. Granted I haven't gotten around to contacting them yet...
M
Maggie55
Guest
I believe it is common practise, even when using normal blocks, to protect the top layer of a wall being built from water penetration. I believe this practice should be especially applied when using Poroton blocks because of the vertical cavities. A certified building product doesn’t necessarily guarantee the proper building with these products. As is often the case in the Irish building industry, when installing perfectly good building products/systems, that execution of the building process lacks the necessary expertise. It also doesn’t surprise me, and I refer to Leo’s previous post, that a builder would post pictures that reveal flaws in a build, whether they are minor flaws or more serious ones.
With reference to the obvious discolouration of the blocks along the top rows and in the bottom right of the picture, I believe as a result of dampness caused by water lodgement, it is my opinion that some people cannot see the trees within the woods. I accept your observation that some Poroton blocks may be a slightly different colour, probably as a result of the manufacturing process, but for a large amount of colour disparity focused primarily along the top rows, the logical conclusion is that there is water lodging inside these blocks. Perhaps the top left picture in this link will make things a little more clear: [broken link removed] Here the discolouration is merging from one block to the other and is not a case of individual blocks being a different colour.
With reference to the obvious discolouration of the blocks along the top rows and in the bottom right of the picture, I believe as a result of dampness caused by water lodgement, it is my opinion that some people cannot see the trees within the woods. I accept your observation that some Poroton blocks may be a slightly different colour, probably as a result of the manufacturing process, but for a large amount of colour disparity focused primarily along the top rows, the logical conclusion is that there is water lodging inside these blocks. Perhaps the top left picture in this link will make things a little more clear: [broken link removed] Here the discolouration is merging from one block to the other and is not a case of individual blocks being a different colour.
Hi there,
Thanks to all for replies. I will phone FBT for a list of contact numbers. With regards to the water ingress, they are supposed to be a breathable block and the outside layer of plaster is supposed to be breathable also. I have looked at the timber frame house namely SIP and have found them to be impressive, we are looking into all options. The SIP house may also have problems with water ingress and also breathability - someone suggested building a house using SIP and putting a single later of block to protect the building. The other issued is certification - at least the FBT's blocks have the agrement certificate.
Thanks to all for replies. I will phone FBT for a list of contact numbers. With regards to the water ingress, they are supposed to be a breathable block and the outside layer of plaster is supposed to be breathable also. I have looked at the timber frame house namely SIP and have found them to be impressive, we are looking into all options. The SIP house may also have problems with water ingress and also breathability - someone suggested building a house using SIP and putting a single later of block to protect the building. The other issued is certification - at least the FBT's blocks have the agrement certificate.
P
Polonius
Guest
Hi Angela,
From reading your previous posts on this thread it’s apparent that you are trying to source a system of construction that is energy efficient. As Maggie mentioned in an earlier post, Ytong may be worth considering as another method of construction. Ytong blocks have excellent thermal retention properties. They have been used in Europe for over 50 years and are now available to Irish consumers through Eco Stein Ltd. I’m affiliated with this company and thought I might give you an additional option to consider. Further information on current Irish builds and achieved U-Values can be obtained on Eco Stein’s website: [broken link removed]
From reading your previous posts on this thread it’s apparent that you are trying to source a system of construction that is energy efficient. As Maggie mentioned in an earlier post, Ytong may be worth considering as another method of construction. Ytong blocks have excellent thermal retention properties. They have been used in Europe for over 50 years and are now available to Irish consumers through Eco Stein Ltd. I’m affiliated with this company and thought I might give you an additional option to consider. Further information on current Irish builds and achieved U-Values can be obtained on Eco Stein’s website: [broken link removed]
Hi Maggie, and everyone else,
I've built two two-storey extensions to my house with Poroton blocks. Expensive but in my opinion the fact that I could do the work myself more than made up for the extra costs.
Maggie, the pictures show nothing but blocks that are a little wet, for one reason or another. The blocks absorb but do not retain water - concrete blocks also absorb water if rained on, as will any porous building material.
There is also a lot of variation in the colours of the blocks due to the manufacturing process. Or it could be that the blocks that look wet were just the ones on the outside layers of the pallet of blocks. These would get wetter than the inside ones, obviously. The build process is so fast that it's entirely likely that the next four or five courses of drier blocks went on before the wet ones dried out.
Bottom line - these pictures certainly show no signs of "dampness" that would be anything to worry about. I'm sure the blocks dried out soon enough after the pics were taken. And anyway, they are supposed to be rendered with porous plaster so the water would continue to evaporate. There are no recommended precautions to be taken to keep poroton blocks (or any blocks, for that matter), dry during the building process.
I believe its not common practise to protect the top layer of wall from water penetration during construction. Look at any building site around the country and you won't see this being done anywhere on regular block builds.
The IAB cert gives all specific guidelines for building with poroton and there is no reference anywhere in it to having to protect the wall from water ingress during construction.
You started out critising the poroton system for dampness problems and when asked to justify your post you've started blaming construction methods. Construction methods are important no matter how you are building, get a wall tie slanted the wrong way on a traditional block build and you'll get a damp internal wall.
Poroton is designed as a breathable material as the OP has pointed out. I myself did a little test on this. I was on site with a selfbuilder midway through blocking a poroton build. He gave me a block to take home and play with because I'd never seen one before apart from on the web ! I filled a trough with some water and placed the block in it. The water level was about an inch up the block to being with. The block literally sizzled when I put it in the trough as it soaked up the water. An hour later the trough was empty and 3/4 of the block had changed colour. I then placed some tissue paper against the block and it came away bone dry. The block holds the water. A day later the block had returned to its original colour i.e. it was dry again. This is exactly how the material is meant to perform.
Incidently, I've no affiliation with FBT or any company related to poroton.
Polonius, seeing as its the theme of the day, can you explain why its necessary to protect a YTong wall from water ingress during construction. What happens if water does get in?
I've read the certification section on your website and am none the wiser as to what the guarantees are for the system. AFAIK ISO 9001 has nothing to do with building materials so is of little relevance. The CE certificate makes reference to the manufacturing process and not to anything related to the blocks suitability for use in our climate. Am I misunderstanding anything here?
Are Quinnlite blocks similar to Ytong?
P
Polonius
Guest
Hi Sas,
Though not absolutely necessary, it would be, as mentioned by Maggie earlier, good building practice to protect any wall from water ingress during building. This is done in order to reduce drying out time prior to plastering to about 2 days for Ytong walls in favourable weather conditions.
The CE certificate you are referring to is confirming that the blocks are manufactured according to EN771- 4, which incidentally, is also an Irish standard i.e. I.S. EN771-4 issued by the National Standards Authority of Ireland (NSAI), conferring a presumption of fitness for the intended uses i.e. different types of load bearing and non load bearing applications in all forms of walling including single leaf, cavity, partitions, retaining, basement and general use below ground level including walling for fire protection, thermal insulation, sound insulation and the fabric of chimney (excluding chimney flue units). I hope that clears up your misunderstanding.
Though not absolutely necessary, it would be, as mentioned by Maggie earlier, good building practice to protect any wall from water ingress during building. This is done in order to reduce drying out time prior to plastering to about 2 days for Ytong walls in favourable weather conditions.
The CE certificate you are referring to is confirming that the blocks are manufactured according to EN771- 4, which incidentally, is also an Irish standard i.e. I.S. EN771-4 issued by the National Standards Authority of Ireland (NSAI), conferring a presumption of fitness for the intended uses i.e. different types of load bearing and non load bearing applications in all forms of walling including single leaf, cavity, partitions, retaining, basement and general use below ground level including walling for fire protection, thermal insulation, sound insulation and the fabric of chimney (excluding chimney flue units). I hope that clears up your misunderstanding.
Maggie didn't say it was good build practise, she said it is common practise, which it most certainly isn't.
So protecting the top of a YTong wall from water ingress (per pictures on your website) is purely to speed up the build process?
I'm still a little confused on the certification part. Whats the point of an IAB cert for example if the CE Certificate covers you for all of the above? Why does the NSAI still issue IAB certs if the CE Certificate is equivalent? Whats the minimum life span for a YTong building? Whats the maintenance interval? What would that maintenance entail?
These are all important points for anyone looking at any "alternative" system. I haven't spent a huge amount of time on your website so I can't be sure these aren't answered there but you should be able to summarise for us.
P
Polonius
Guest
Hi Sas,
Are we trying to split hairs here? (Ref: Maggie’s comment)
Protecting an Ytong wall during the building process from the elements does indeed speed up the build considerably (i.e. subsequent plastering), as any concrete wall should be dry to the highest possible degree before plastering.
CE certification is actually not equivalent to IAB certification. IAB certification is granted for non regulated building products. Since Ytong products have CE (Conformité Européenne) certification, the nationally issued IAB certificate is not required. To my knowledge, the NSAI does not issue IAB certs. It is the Irish Agrement Board that does that.
The durability of houses built in Ytong can be compared to concrete block construction as Ytong is a concrete product. Many Ytong houses built in continental Europe more than 50 years ago are still in use today. Houses built with Ytong blocks require no special maintenance at all.
I fully agree with you that these are indeed important points to consider when looking for alternative building systems as the information available on various building products can be quite limited.
Are we trying to split hairs here? (Ref: Maggie’s comment)
Protecting an Ytong wall during the building process from the elements does indeed speed up the build considerably (i.e. subsequent plastering), as any concrete wall should be dry to the highest possible degree before plastering.
CE certification is actually not equivalent to IAB certification. IAB certification is granted for non regulated building products. Since Ytong products have CE (Conformité Européenne) certification, the nationally issued IAB certificate is not required. To my knowledge, the NSAI does not issue IAB certs. It is the Irish Agrement Board that does that.
The durability of houses built in Ytong can be compared to concrete block construction as Ytong is a concrete product. Many Ytong houses built in continental Europe more than 50 years ago are still in use today. Houses built with Ytong blocks require no special maintenance at all.
I fully agree with you that these are indeed important points to consider when looking for alternative building systems as the information available on various building products can be quite limited.
M
Maggie55
Guest
First Extopia I would like to thank you for your previous post. At least you were willing to confirm that the blocks can become wet internally for one reason or another and didn’t simply dismiss my observations on water lodgment. I was also aware that the blocks are breathable and the water will eventually leave. My first and only question, which was not addressed by the others in this thread, was “How long will it take for the water to dry out completely?” I’ve heard that it can take up to two years for a traditional concrete home to completely dry out. Also, when water does lodge within a sequence of poroton blocks does this jeopardize the U-value along that part of the wall? Does this not introduce a cold bridge? Also, would you be able to give me an indication on pricing for a poroton block? I’d appreciate any comments you can provide.
Thanks Extopia,
Maggie
Thanks Extopia,
Maggie
Hi Maggie - the drying out time for a wet poroton block during the build is negligable, to be honest. We're talking a few hours (unless it's raining 
) I'd say. There is no issue with water being retained in the blocks - they would dry out far, far quicker than concrete blocks that are rained on, for example, because they have a much larger surface area (due to the cellular structure) from which the water can evaporate.
Really, there is no issue here. Trust me, I spent a couple of months building in Irish weather conditions.
U-values would indeed be jeapordised, and cold bridging would also be an issue, if blocks or plaster were wet, and stayed wet. But the Poroton system is a breathable porous system, with porous render applied - so the walls stay dry (if built and plastered properly, of course). Standard anti-cold-bridging steps are also taken during the build - FBT are very upfront about explaining what to do.
Maggie, the blocks, when I bought them in 2004 were about four euros per block. That works out to about 40 euros per square metre of wall. I can't remember exactly but VAT might have been extra. But call FBT - the main man, Wolfgang, is an incredibly helpful chap and he'll give you the current prices. The T9 block may be a later development to what I used, not sure to be honest what my block was called (too many things to remember when you're doing the kind of renovation and build that I was doing!)
Remember it's a single leaf system so there are far fewer individual blocks than an a concrete build. This might save you some cash if your blocklayer is laying by the block. Of course, when I was doing this a few years ago, in the NW, I couldn't get a blocklayer who was willing to work with the poroton as no one knew anything about it. I ended up doing it myself as a result - it's actually very doable for anyone with modest DIY skills.
Perhaps blocklayers are more used to the material now. There's a lengthy thread elsewhere on AAM on the subject of Poroton building.
I am very pleased with the end result of my build - the poroton part of the house is very cosy, it's noticable compared to the rest of the house, which is stone. And no signs of any dampness anywhere!
) I'd say. There is no issue with water being retained in the blocks - they would dry out far, far quicker than concrete blocks that are rained on, for example, because they have a much larger surface area (due to the cellular structure) from which the water can evaporate.Really, there is no issue here. Trust me, I spent a couple of months building in Irish weather conditions.
U-values would indeed be jeapordised, and cold bridging would also be an issue, if blocks or plaster were wet, and stayed wet. But the Poroton system is a breathable porous system, with porous render applied - so the walls stay dry (if built and plastered properly, of course). Standard anti-cold-bridging steps are also taken during the build - FBT are very upfront about explaining what to do.
Maggie, the blocks, when I bought them in 2004 were about four euros per block. That works out to about 40 euros per square metre of wall. I can't remember exactly but VAT might have been extra. But call FBT - the main man, Wolfgang, is an incredibly helpful chap and he'll give you the current prices. The T9 block may be a later development to what I used, not sure to be honest what my block was called (too many things to remember when you're doing the kind of renovation and build that I was doing!)
Remember it's a single leaf system so there are far fewer individual blocks than an a concrete build. This might save you some cash if your blocklayer is laying by the block. Of course, when I was doing this a few years ago, in the NW, I couldn't get a blocklayer who was willing to work with the poroton as no one knew anything about it. I ended up doing it myself as a result - it's actually very doable for anyone with modest DIY skills.
Perhaps blocklayers are more used to the material now. There's a lengthy thread elsewhere on AAM on the subject of Poroton building.
I am very pleased with the end result of my build - the poroton part of the house is very cosy, it's noticable compared to the rest of the house, which is stone. And no signs of any dampness anywhere!