Poll: who is most to blame for our plight?

D

Duke of Marmalade

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With Bertie waving goodbye, I was moved to consider this question. To me he wins the trophy. His "suicide" quip stands out as a demonstration of denial, just when maybe the situation could have been saved. But it is not his role in the banking crisis which gains him the honour it is his responsibility for the benchmarking, the ludicrous increases in social protection and the surrender to the unions which bought him at least two elections but which has left us in a dreadful place.

Other runners and riders:

Seanie: perhaps the one most responsible for the banking crisis. His cringingly arrogant claims to have made the Celtic Tiger and his call to remove medical cards stick in the memory.

Drummie: Seanie argues that he was in the back seat and it was Drummie who drove the thing into the rocks.

Bleary Neary: whilst he didn't cause the bubble, technically he was in the best place to cry halt.

The Bearded Ones: I give these a collective entry. Their manipulation of Bertie was obscene but can you blame them?

Lenny: Lenny came too late to be blamed for the root causes. But has his handling of the situ made it a lot worse than it should have been? I don't think so.

Cowengate: more fingerprints on the causes than Lenny but must surely be placed behind Bertie on all known form.

Charlie: Okay, a long time ago but he was the champion of deregulation and let it rip capitalism. He also must take most responsibility for bringing us into the Euro.
 
None of them it was US the electorate, it was obivious to every tom dick and harry they were in it for themselves, a TD, salary, then an allowance for turning up, then an allowance for travel, then an office allowance, then a secretarial allowance, then if on a committe another allowance, then if a junior minister a pay increase, a full minister a bigger pay increase, a big car with driver, then when booted out another big pay off. Everyone knew this was going on and still we voted them in.

And what will happen this time? The same thing again.

We are suckers.

I will finish with one simple observation, any TD worth his salt with some integrity would not allow schools in this country to be worse than 3rd world when all the money was slushing around.

noah
 
NOAH said:
I will finish with one simple observation, any TD worth his salt with some integrity would not allow schools in this country to be worse than 3rd world when all the money was slushing around.

noah
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I agree but the solution would have been to not allow so much of the education budget to go on pay. That means that the government would have had to face down the teachers unions and not given in to their massive pay demands. Since the Dail is dominated by teachers and the public are too stupid to see the link between pay increases V class sizes and infrastructural investment I don't think any government would have been able to carry it off.

The government will only do the right thing if the people want them to do the right thing. That applies in the above example but it also applies to taxes, pay rates generally and welfare rates etc.
 
I agree that 'WE' have to be included in all this.

Most people were happy enough to let it happen unabated as most people were doing all right out of it. You didn't hear too many folk say "my pay rise is too big", or "its not right that I my house just doubled in value in 5yrs".

Only thing we can hope for is that we have all learned and this, once our debt is under control, will never happen in the future.
 
I would blame, first and foremost, FF (Ahern, Cowen & Lenihan) followed by the EU. FFs desire to be seen as good Europeans, by scaring people into overturning both No to Nice and No to Lisbon, and by joining the euro when we had no business doing so, set us on the path to ruin. Then FF capitulated to the EU, by having the Irish taxpayer guarantee moronic lending by private EU banks and finally by allowing the EU to bully us into the IMF/EU deal in order to protect the euro (and ultimately the European Project).
 
I think that Charlie McCreevy has got off very lightly in debate over the last few years.
 
I dont really think the EU is to blame, nor the fact that we gave up the IEP for the Euro.

It was our own reckless lack of proper self regulation. Banking, Property, Personal Debt, Spending, everything.

Lets not forget that Spain, Portugal and Greece are in the same boat as us (or nearly).

Blaming the EU is easy, however lets not forget they funded a huge amount of projects in IRL, half of which would never have been completed otherwise (the only problem was the ridiculous money charges by Irish Contractors, solicitors, advisors etc that made these projects 10 times more expensive than they should have been).

We have nobody to blame for this mess than ourselves. We voted in the cronies (repeatedly). and as somebody said above, were more than happy to turn a blind eye when things were going well.

The sooner we stop trying to blame someone, and instead start trying to get over it the better.
 
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rustbucket said:
We have nobody to blame for this mess than ourselves. We voted in the cronies (repeatedly).
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But what about the hundreds of thousands who didn't - ever?

...and as somebody said above, were more than happy to turn a blind eye when things were going well.
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And again, many didn't.

The sooner we stop trying to blame someone, and instead start trying to get over it the better.
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But agree with this anyway.
 
I did it. But ye can't prove it, so ill deny it if it's all the same to you. It wasn't me it was those "shisters" up in Dail Eireann with their fancy mercs & percs and their golden circle buddies. Now I'm very annoyed with em, and I'm penning a strongly worded letter which I'll send right after they look after getting me a house, filling the potholes, clean the graffititi, clean-up the dog pooh on my street, get a bus-stop at my front door, (and not at that snooty one in Number 27), not allowing an incinerator in my backyard, attending every funeral going, and give me a few decent tips for the 1.30 at Doncaster, write a letter for my third cousin twice removed who got done for no insurance, (but didn't he only buy the car, and wasn't he just driving it home)............ Yours sincerely The Irish Electorate.

PS: It might take me a while to write the strongly worded letter and anyway, aren't one as bad as the other, they're all the bloody same.....no point, they don't listen anyway.....what can one man do.....curse em, I'll not bother, and I won't vote either, that'll tell em.
 
+1. you have said everything that needs to be said in that post.
 
Why doesn't anyone remember the massive protest marches led by FG and Labour protesting against tax cuts, benchmarking , social partnership pay rises, massive increase in childrens allowance and pensions, money being spent on motorways etc ???

Oh the people were very angry with the Government. So angry they relected them twice.
 
The answer is simple - the greedy bankers must shoulder the blame with the Regulator who took his eye off the ball when everybody else could see that the banks went mad lending money like they were never going to see a poor day. Enter the government who decided that the banks should be bailed out instead of letting them go under.

Then there are various side shows like crooked politicians, suspect builders, a legal profession that makes Al Capone look like an altar boy and . . . oh! of course a gullible public who did not want to see what was happening around them.

Throw in Social Welfare fraud which is rife and we now have a cauldron that will end up with us being some kind of federal state of Germany.
 

+1 The Irish electorate are to blame for continuously voting for the mess that we have and the Irish electorate will have to pay for it becasuse nobody else will. Think about that on Feb 25.

After all that FF have done, 3 members of my own family are going to vote for them.
 
I vote for Cowengate - he was the man in charge for the 2 most disasterous occasions - the banking bailout & the IMF/EU deal.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
To me he wins the trophy. His "suicide" quip stands out as a demonstration of denial, just when maybe the situation could have been saved.
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Government denial is a big factor in where we are today. I'm sick of hearing FF saying "No told us there was a problem". Anyone that pointed out potential problems to them were accused of talking down the economy.

Remember when the German Ambassador gave a speech in 2007 and he was reprimanded for it. Look at the points he made. Many would feel he was spot on.

Or when Cowen became Taoiseach in 2008 and he said it would be hypocritical to accept a massive pay increase for himself because an independant body had recommended it. Funny how he could ignore most of the stuff in An Bord Snip and the Taxation report.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/reprimand-for-german-envoy-over-his-coarse-irish-speech-1081773.html

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cowen-its-hypocritical-not-to-accept-my-pay-hike-1357745.html
 

Agree with above. Cant see how anyone could possibly vote FF.
To be honest, Im not sure I blame FF entirely though. I mean If FG had been in power for the last ten years, or labour, would anything have happened so differently that we would not be in this situation. I really doubt it.

Since FF were in power, they are the ones who have to take it on the chin. In a normal world this would have catastrophic effects on their seats in the next GE. Lets see what happens....we are in Ireland after all...They certainly wont be getting my vote. Then again, neither will Labour of FG.

Im not quite sure who the best of a bad lot are
 
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