Planning Permission on site when already own a house

M

Mr. Tickles

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Dear posters

Firstly a great website / forum - I have already found invaluable information on many threads - thank you.

I'm looking for advice on the following situation - an uncle of my wife's has recently given us a site and told us to seek planning permission on it. The site is situated between my wife's father and her uncle and both of them have, unfortunately, been widowed recently. My wife and I spend a large amount of time with them as a result of these circumstances and building there would be in our interests as well as theirs.

We currently own a house about 6 miles away but would love to be closer to both of them. My wife qualifies under local needs(teaches nearby, lived locally all her life); however we are concerned that our application for planning permission would be rejected straight away as we already own a house. Do you think there is a good chance of our application being rejected on these grounds?

thanks in advance
 
Re: Planning Permission on site when already owe a house

Sorry for typo in thread title - it should read "own a house", not "owe a house" - although the latter is probably more accurate, considering the length of time left on my mortgage!
 
Re: Planning Permission on site when already owe a house

She doesn't qualify since ye already have a house.

That said, the number of people I've seen fibbing about such things is rather high. (Basically because no FTB could afford to build a house in a greenbelt, unless it's on parents' property) Of course that means their Planning Permission is actually invalid if anyone starts digging, but most people don't seem to worry.

But basically, unless she lies, she does not qualify.
 
Re: Planning Permission on site when already owe a house

This condition is relevant in the area that I am from too and having spoken to a couple of architects, there are ways around it. One of the ways mentioned to me is that you could look for permission for a house with an ensuite bedroom downstairs stating that you are returning home to look after parent/relative (which seems to be relevant in your case) who may become ill in the future, or to be close when your parent gets older. Ring around some experienced architects in your area, I'm sure they can advise on the ins and outs of the system.

The other way is to sell your current house and provide local authority with letter from estate agent stating you are sale agreed. Obvious problem there is that you have no home while you are building.

Good luck!
 
Re: Planning Permission on site when already owe a house

As far as I know option one mentioned by mobileme only applies where one is moving a great distance - e.g. from Galway to Dublin etc. Not 6 miles up the road as it were. Do check it out though.
 
Re: Planning Permission on site when already owe a house

"The other way is to sell your current house and provide local authority with letter from estate agent stating you are sale agreed. Obvious problem there is that you have no home while you are building."

Thank you, Mobileme and Superman, for your advice. One option we are considering is selling the house and moving in with my wife's father, and then seeking planning. The risk we then face is getting rejected for planning and having no house - is there a condition that you can't have owned a house in the last five years or is it just my imagination?

Also, the guidelines are open to interpretation (or is it just me trying to stretch them?!) - they are something like "where current living conditions are unacceptable". Is it stretching them to say at the moment they are unacceptable for my wife who spends as much time as possible with her dad / uncle? We don't want to manipulate their grief but would it be a worthwhile argument?
 
Re: Planning Permission on site when already owe a house

This is different in every county. Once you get into housing need in Galway its a bloody nightmare of the highest order.

In Galway a principal/keyholder does not have housing need in the area where their school is so I can hardly imagine a teacher being of any import because they are not the keyholder. In Galway the principal in question ended up living 12-14 miles from an elderly relative .

Then it turns out that IN GALWAY its the site that has a housing need and NOT THE HUMANS who want to build on it . Owning a gaff will obviate any housing need, I would tend to recommend selling it but if its only 6 miles it may not help.

Is there a definiation of 'local' in km in your county, eg is 6 miles (10km) local anyway , is your home in a different DED ?

It also depends on the categorisation of landscape, the story above about the principal was category 3 out of 5 (SAC and National Parks are higher priority landscapes where the stuff gets worse ) .
 
Re: Planning Permission on site when already owe a house

if there is a need for you to build a bigger / better equipped house then owning a house is not a definate deal breaker. an extreme example would be living in a one bedroom house with 3 children, there is clearly a need to build a bigger house.
 
Re: Planning Permission on site when already owe a house

I was looking into this recently & was told that it would be a definite NO if I already owned a house.
The only suggestion given to me was to sell - don't think this is really viable ....what if you don't get planning & house prices continue to rise....would cost you more to buy a house later then.........
Alternatively move out of the house & rent it out & then you rent a diff house! I know the Kildare Co. Co. never explicitly asks you if you own a house - it just asks for your addresses over the last 5 years I think then just asks whether you own the house you currently live in..............again that seems a bit mad to me.
Ridiculous rule!
 
Why not put your own house in your name. Your wife is now homeless and needs a new house, therefore she should apply for PP. People split up and get back together all the time..
 
For Winnie:
In Cork County, they ask if you own any property. Different LA's must use different forms.
 
Hi Mr. Tickles
Have you approached the planning office of your local county council yet? If you arrange a pre planning meeting with the planner and discuss your requirements you may find in light of the family situation the planner may be only too glad to help accommodate your building. Just a suggestion.

HP
 
Henny,

Just on that note. I'd suggest the original poster be careful with the pre-planning meeting. I know of someone who had a pre-planning meeting only for issues mentioned in passing at the meeting to be brought up by the planner several months later...
 
Hi all

Thank you for your advice - much appreciated. How about saying we are currently renting our house? Do you think they would investigate further? I'm not sure about pretending that we've split up - only got married at Christmas!
 
Yeah you could do that, however -
when it comes down to it (i.e. in the supplementary application forms) they will ask you to put that in writing.
Technically if you lie that you don't have another house, your permission is invalid.
That said, around these parts I'd estimate the number of people you actually qualify for housing need who get permission at about 50% (i.e. 50% lie and say they don't have a house when in fact they do).
You are running the (possibly slight - but who knows for your part of the country) risk that you are found out and now have a house without permission.
 
Is is really worth lying on your application form, it would only take one person who sees the site notice to inform the authority and/or object on the grounds that you already own a house and you wouldn't stand a chance. As your wife is a teacher and lived locally all her life there is a good chance someone in the planning department might know her and know if you are being untruthful, is it worth the risk? Why not just go in, get one of your elected members to go in with you, you are more likely to get a sympathetic ear if you are honest with them!
 
Nice to see you have so much faith in people doing their civic duty JP.
IME, people don't like sticking their neck out. Unless you'd pissed off a neighbour, they are really unlikely to go to the trouble of making a comment on your application.
Again that is in my experience.
Personally I don't approve of the system as it stands. It is abused to an extraordinary extent - in fact it seems to be designed to favour those who simply lie.

Also nice to see your faith in the philanthropic side of Planners...
 

Oh I know, I am forever hopeful! I agree that it's unlikely a neighbour would complain, IME it's usually not near neighbours but serial objectors/people from outside the area who cause most problems. We had a chap from a neighbouring county who would object to anything from a one off house to major developements in our county! And yes they planning system is ridiculous at times, I can see why and how it is easily abused.
My experience of planners has always been ok, never had reason to complain, they are just people doing a difficult job governed by often senseless guidelines.

Back OT, only the OP can decide if they really want to do this, there is no real "need" involved, so answering the original question:
Do you think there is a good chance of our application being rejected on these grounds?
Click to expand...
The answer is clearly yes, if you already own a house in the locality then you do not fall under local need and it's more than likely you will not get permission.
 
No, you wouldn't get permission. They'll find out from the land registry that you're not a first time buyer/builder. Happened to a friend of mine and she was told by the planners to basically forget it.
 
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