Well said the both of you.
I''l add
13. Health and Safety Review [Designers Duties under H&S Legislation]
14. Structural Review [especially for wide-span or clear span spaces]
ONQ.
No its not - anything built in open countryside needs to be reviewed for wind loads, particularly lightweight buildings with no cross walls on exposed sites.A Structural Review for a domestic garage is abit OTT.
Let's see what your own knowledge of the GDA is like.As is a Pre consultation meeting with the Co. Co. planners, which may alter the draft plans or having to learn or read the development plan for the area. Surely a local professional with PI insurance would be "up to speed" on the Development Plan.
Its the OPS job to state their intent to help formulate the brief.The OP clearly states he / she wants to build a blockwork garage with slated hip roof & rendered walls. No mention of box metal, wide span portal frames or silo's.
The OP had an anexoric view of the architects services, which some posters fleshed out for himLets not make a mountain out of a mole hill. The OP asked a very simple question and deserves a simple & honest answer. IMO €1200 plus vat is expensive for a detached domestic garage (matching finish of existing dwelling). I don't think the OP is looking for excuses, campaigns or splitting hairs on professionals / names etc.
Its quite clear that you disagree with some of them RKQ and that is your right and privilege.Its not that I agree or disagree with the posts above, its just that I feel many posts are going off topic and not answering the OP's question.
I want to apply for planning permission for a rather large but relatively straight forward garage in my back garden. I've asked a friend of mine with IAI membership for a quote for a planning application and he's quoted me €1,200 plus vat which seems rather steep unless he's made a mistake and added on an extra nought in which case I think it would be very reasonable.
Any idea what would be a reasonable quote for a straight forward planning application for a 4 walled 50m sq concrete block built, plaster rendered, hip slated roof garage with roller shutter door and two windowas and two skylights in a spacious back garden with the nearest neighbour >200m away?
No its not - anything built in open countryside needs to be reviewed for wind loads, particularly lightweight buildings with no cross walls on exposed sites.
With the increasing windspeeds becoming more likely in these latitudes because of global warming this is foreseeable.
If its foreseeable and nothing is considered and the garage collapses with somone in it - who will be blamed?
The unwise architect who didn't advise his client to retain the services of an engineer to consider wind load.
ONQ.
That one be about right, assuming outline of main house included as wellOur architect charged us €500 for the site survey and €1250 for planning application. He also strongly recommended the services of a structural engineer which he reckons will set us back approx €1200.
I have an application for planning currently lodged. We are converting a garage to the side of our house and building above it. Our architect charged us €500 for the site survey and €1250 for planning application. He also strongly recommended the services of a structural engineer which he reckons will set us back approx €1200.
<bows>My original concerns, thanks for reiterting them. Well done ONQ.
<snip>
Its quite clear that you disagree with some of them RKQ and that is your right and privilege.
We're designers, and we carry a lot of responsibility.
We're not shed builders.
To the OP:
Do you honestly expect someone to prepare and submit a planning permission for €120? NO I don't, certainly not, He was "doing me a favour" which I would have expected to be VERY compteitive relative to his normal charges so that for a normal professional fee of say €400, then a relative quote from him for €120 would have been very generous
Do you have any idea of the work that goes into this? YES - Don't take me for a fool, but neither do I accept the amount of work that you might claim goes into it! It is by and large a straight forward application, If additional issues involving additonal expenses come to light during the planing process so be it. I will meet them as they arise
I am astounded at people claiming that quotes are completely unreasonable when they clearly have no idea what it takes to prepare a planning application for a building, no matter how straightforward.
Here is a non-exhaustive list of what must be undertaken prior to submitting a planning application.
1. survey the property - +/- 2 hrs
2. read the development plan for the area - I have done this myself already, No obvious implications
3. read the particular planning requirements for the area - I have done this myself already, No obvious implications
4. draw the site and any buildings on it - If I had my own copy of Autocad I could do this in less than an hour.
5. design the new building, in consultation with any other consultants necessary, (this might incur an additional fee) - I have the basic conception of the building already in place, All I need are drawings complying with structural norms and design specs for a building of this size and type. SPONS or a basic constructions text book could give even a novice this.
6. draw plans, sections, elevations, contiguous elevations, fully labelled dimensioned. Again If I had my own copy of Autocad I could do this in less than an hour.
7. prepare a report describing the development - See below, Is this an essential supplement to the application form, I don't believe so.
8. fill in the planning application - Just read and answer the questions on the form?
9. make relevant number of copies of the planning submission and submit. @ 10c per copy?
Throught this process your consultant will need to visit the site at least once to take the measured survey, they will need to meet with you initially to discuss requirements, once again to submit a draft and prehaps again to go through the final application. Travel costs need to be taken into account, as do printing costs, the cost of any maps that need to be bought from OSI, along with any overheads the consultnant may have.
The OSi maps, The application fee of €34 as well as the local newspaper advert were all additional to this
Please rethink the idea that €120 would be a reasonable amount to pay for this. As I said I would neither think €120 would be a reasonable amounts to pay as much as neither would I think €1200 would be a reasonable amount.
I think we're getting down to bedrock now, having seen your min-rant against the professionals over on boards.ieThank y'all for your replies, some of which I have already addressed in boards.ie but I equally appreciate many of the points made here however as in my other reply I would also question the stance of some of the posters, whose replies smack of a degree of smugness and superiority of their opinion of their profession that probably serves to put off rather than endear or earn the trust of potential clients.
Translation:Whilst it may work to bombard some innocents with technical jargon and lists that are meant more than anything else to project your alleged scale of command of your profession and to make your client feel like a total helpless illiterate fool, it takes considerably more than that to justify to me that someone's professional input is worth a fee of €1200 plus VAT.
Translation:As I've said elsewhere, I have actually since gone and discussed the quote in detail with my friend and the discussion has shed considerably more light on it as well as a very frank and genuine suggestion from him that I should indeed shop around.
Translation:But to specifically address some of the issues raised:
I suppose, as some of the other posters, have rightly pointed out, and perhaps as my posting here may reflect, it does come down to the perceived value I put on the professional services of the architectural profession. Unfortunately the experience of witnessing some of the developments that have gone on in Mayo during the boom times, as elsewhere in the country, have done little to cover the profession in glory or integrity with little in evidence of any form of architectual merit so that on that basis, it becomes something of a vicious circle, when it comes to myself making an application for for a purely functional building, having seen what the profession has produced in the way of residental and commercial buildings both urban and rural in this county, I'm compelled to think, sure if I can get away with pure functionality like the majority, why do I need to worry about character or architectural merit at all. I just want the basics of what I need to get planning permission, whatever that lowest common denominator is this week or month.
Translation:I'm also somewhat reminded in this thread of the relationships between nurses and doctors or consultants in hospitals, whereby it would seem proven that nurses do much of the base diagnosis and treatment of patients in most of our hospital wards and the consultants or doctors often only involve themselves to justify their consultancy fees or cover their arses and in doing so also mainting their air or superiority both over their patients and the suborbinate nursing staff.
Translation:Unfortuantely a good deal of what I see in this thread would seem to indicate that some in the architectural profession breathe the same rarefied air.
If you want my business can I suggest talking to me rather than down to me and my likes. If you earn my respect I'll gladly pay you for it.
Of course, any potential client only had to ask where the diploma or degree Certificate was in the office to satisfy themselves that person they were dealign with was a qualified professional.
I just want the basics of what I need to get planning permission, whatever that lowest common denominator is this week or month.
.
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