world201812
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My fear around the whole pension thing is putting something away that could go ‘bust’ as before,
and the other concern is will the government likely ‘means test’ the pension 30 years from now?
How are they going to justify telling someone who contributed PRSI for 40 years that they're getting nothing, while someone who spent their life on the dole gets €12,000 a year.
In 25 years' time it is projected that there will be over 1.4 people aged 65 and over (roughly 22% of the projected population).
Means-testing that proportion of the population would be a mammoth and very costly exercise.
Do you mean the additional personal allowance, are there other such advantages. This seems unlikely to make a meaningful contribution to resolving the problemIt seems far more likely to me that future governments will seek to contain spiralling pension costs by some combination of the following:-
- Reducing the tax advantages currently enjoyed by our seniors;
Reducing the current caps on private (tax-advantaged) pensions;
Reducing the level of all State pensions; and
Further increasing the age at which State pensions become payable.
You will have to try harder to convince me that you have identified them.It is certainly possible that the contributory State pension will be abolished but I personally think that is highly unlikely. Aside from the political difficulties, there are far more practical and cost effective ways of tackling or containing this issue.
You will have to try harder to convince me that you have identified them.
It will be challenging for public servants to reduce the pension cap on the basis that it affects both public and private pensioners.
Absolutely agree - which is why I tried to emphasise that an effective reduction in all State pensions is likely to form part of any future effort to contain a spiralling pension bill.
There are other ways of capping pension benefits beyond reducing the SFT - for example, the tax-free lump sum ceiling could be further reduced.
But really my main point is that there are other viable options available to future governments to contain an escalating pension bill that would be (a) less politically toxic; and (b) less of an administrative nightmare, than attempting to means-test all State pensions.
Sorry Cremeegg but I really don't feel under any obligation to "try harder". I simply expressed an opinion on an open forum - I really couldn't care less if I never convinced you of anything.
In 25 years' time it is projected that there will be over 1.4 people aged 65 and over (roughly 22% of the projected population). Means-testing that proportion of the population would be a mammoth and very costly exercise.
Any one who wants a pension has to apply and demonstrate their eligibility. This is how student grants and nursing home grants are done at present
I have no such expectation, Cremeegg.Well if you expect your opinions to be taken seriously
The demographic projections come from the Centre for Aging Research and Development in Ireland (CARDI).But you have not adduced anything by way of support for this opinion.
You really haven't you know. That's fine by me - I'm certainly not going to be rude enough to ask you to "try harder".I have brought some evidence to support my opinion.
The demographic projections come from the Centre for Aging Research and Development in Ireland (CARDI).
I would have thought it was absolutely self-evident that attempting to means-test such a significant proportion of the population would be a massive undertaking.
I would point out that successive governments have avoided trying to target (ie mean-test) child benefit - primarily because they know that it would be an unpopular, bureaucratic nightmare.
I was previously part of a DB scheme which went ‘bust’, and I have a new pension scheme/employer of late, in the private sector.
As a non-public sector employee I understand that as things stand, a private sector employee gets the state pension of €230 per week plus their employer pension, while a public servant doesn’t get the €230 per week?
My fear around the whole pension thing is putting something away that could go ‘bust’ as before, and the other concern is will the government likely ‘means test’ the pension 30 years from now?
As in if I don’t make any pension provision I might get the state pension, but, if I set-up a private pension the government could turn around and say ‘you aren’t getting the state one now’..
Would I be safer as a private sector person just stashing cash away, and not be at the whim of a change in government policy?
My concern around the means test is I know with the likes of unemployment benefits, people with savings are punished after nine months or so of a payment being received.
It seems you get punished for being ‘prudent’.
We seem to be in agreement on this point. Indeed I think it was I who raised it first on this thread see post 4.
As I have suggested a model whereby people apply and prove eligibility, such as is used in the student grant scheme, for broadly similar numbers, could be used. While the SUSI model certainly had some initial issues, it appears to work reasonably well at present with modest resources.
Now unpopular is a different matter, again I would agree that means testing the contributory pension would be hugely unpopular.
if the government start to cut the state pension any cut in state pension will only affect private sector workers... the government will make up any cut suffered by the public servant from general taxation
every euro you cut from a public sector contributory pension on the prsi side will have to be added back out of general taxation to to bring pension back up to they same amount again
This is an extremely important, made in jjm's inimitable, impenetrable style.
Public sector workers get a pension 50% of their final salary averaged over 3 years (as i understand it)
Now this is often portrayed as the state pension, for which they pay PRSI, plus a pension from their employment for which they pay contributions.
If the state pension is cut does the public sector pension from employment automatically bring them back to the 50%. I am asking if anyone knows rather than predictions as to what may happen in future.
Our posts seem to have crossed.
This is a very important question:
Do you know that this is the case in the existing terms of the public sector pension or are you just predicting the future.
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