Pension contributions after 40 years service?

I'm approaching the crunch decision time and while I'm about 95% leaning towards retirement, I still have a few niggles before I make the leap. So if anyone could answer the following and have patience with my indecision I'd hugely appreciate it. Thanks so much.

I am now at full service as a secondary teacher. 30 actual, 10 notional. The 10 notional was paid by periodic contribuitions over some 10 years up to my 65th birthday last August. If I continue next year it will be on a job share basis like this year. I opened this thread asking if I would have to continue paying the normal pension contributions from my salary if I continue and it seems that I will.Fair enough. However from what I have read about notional service, it looks as if I would be entitled to a refund of same once over maximum service. Is that correct and if so is the following correct please?

One year job share is only a half year for pension. So I would have 30.5 years service if I teach for another year. Would I get a refund of .5 year, half year, fom the notional service contributions minus tax? And if so, what rate of tax? I am now at the the lower rate since job sharing but when paying my periodic contributions I was at the higher rate and got the tax relief at the higher rate. I get the impression that it really wouldn't be worth my while working on for that, but throwing the question out there anyway.

Thanks so much in advance to anyone who can shed light.
 
acequion said:
Fair enough. However from what I have read about notional service, it looks as if I would be entitled to a refund of same once over maximum service. Is that correct and if so is the following correct please?
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I don't know the answer to this but the original purchase scheme set out a number of quite circumscribed circumstances in which a refund of purchased service may be made. Yours is not one of them but this is not surprising as there was no provision then for extending normal pensionable service to 70. The 2018 Act, extending compulsory retirement age to 70, made no provision either way on this matter (see FAQ 15 here.)

Could you reference, or post up, what you have read that suggests that you would be entitled to a refund? It would seem logical that this might have been introduced but I have seen no details.

In the original scheme any refunds were via payroll.
 
Thanks so much Ruffian for your fast reply. I didn't read anything specific, just what came up when Googling. It seems that if awarded Professional Added Years excess notional service contributions are refunded in that case and that's what confused me. Presumably that is one of the limited conditions you mention.

You're right that there appears to be no provision for PS employees with excess service, however it really is illogical.
 
They wouldn't have to stretch it much to let it apply in the same way as for professional added years. Possibly they do but unlikely in the absence of some sort of circular.

Is it vital for your decision?
 
Not vital. However as I said earlier in this thread, I like working and would be tempted to continue if the financial hit in working were smaller, as in I will take home more money once retired on the pension, plus have the option to do extras. I could do extras while job sharing but easier all round in the freedom of retirement. Now if a refund of the NS contributions, plus slight increased OAP by applying later, were to make continuing a little more attractive, it's worth considering. However I don't suppose a half year refund minus tax would be much. Would you know what rate of tax applies in a case like this? The Pensions dept for Education might be able to put me straight on the issue but I'd probably have a few extra years done before they'd get round to replying [lol].
 
There's a 1998 Letter to Personnel Officers that seems to cover what you're looking for. You can find it through www. publicservicepensions .gov.ie.

It looks to me like it applies to the civil service at least, but those provisions are often applied to the wider public service as well. If I were you I'd confirm with D/Education HR.
 
KirbiG said:
There's a 1998 Letter to Personnel Officers that seems to cover what you're looking for. You can find it through www. publicservicepensions .gov.ie.
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Well spotted - I assume this is the letter? However, it refers to the 1979 scheme and says it is not of relevance to the "revised scheme" post 1990 (see last paragraph).

Worth checking out with the Dept of Ed., as you say.
 
Thanks so much @KirbiG. As @Ruffian pointed out, it does clearly state that it is not applicable to the revised scheme from 1990 which is what I was paying into. Presumably because the option to purchase up to age 65 was introduced with the new scheme and it was probably assumed that this would cover extra years public servants may wish to work.

Also, it was subject to conditions and perhaps an implication that the first 3 months of excess would not be refunded.

I will email Pensions about this and hopefully I will get an answer quickly as I am anxious to make my decision very soon. In any case I will post here once I get an answer, as this issue will become more relevant from now on with the option to work up to age 70.
 
So I finally got an answer, or some kind of answer from Pensions in the DES. I had to phone [not so easy] to get it clarified and though they were to email me the clarification, with relevant links, that didn't happen. A poor service to their employees and an overall vagueness when it comes to necessary information for retirees. Thank god for this site. But here it is what I was told:

As is the case for Professional Added Years, notional service contributions, minus tax, are refunded after you have done 91 days in excess of 40 years. From what I could gather, but the person on the phone wasn't certain, those 91 days are not refunded, the refund begins on day 92. If my calculations are correct and I'm grateful to anybody who can correct any error here, job sharers would need to do double that. So in an extra 12 months of job sharing you would only be refunded 3 months contributions. Is that correct? If so it would only be worthwhile to do a number of excess years as just one is not worthwhile. A clear unambiguous circular is needed on this and I can't find one anywhere. But that is what I was told. The person on the phone also confirmed that you have to keep paying into the main pension scheme and no refunds there.

It really is an unfair state of affairs and I reckon one of the less documented reason for our retention and recruitment crisis in some key public sector jobs. I will most likely retire now as there really is nothing to entice me to continue when I could do so much better financially on the pension. The income on job sharing is too small to be viable long term.

Hopefully the information in this post and thread will be of use to future retirees.
 
If you wish to "keep your hand in" would you consider retiring on your full pension (Occupational and State) and returning to subbing or part-time work?
In theory you would be subject to pension abatement but in practice this is very unlikely (https://www.gov.ie/en/department-of...ubstitute-while-receiving-a-teachers-pension/). AFAIK you would still be subject to main scheme pension deductions on your subbing pay though.
 
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Acequion, I remember your posts from back in the bad old strike days, you were always a supportive voice for the teacher & always gave valuable insights. You will no doubt, be a huge loss to your school & your colleagues. And while I can’t speak to the financials, it’s time now to think of yourself, retiring in good health is a gift, take it & enjoy every second x
 
@cream1,what a lovely think to say!! Thank you so much, I really aprecciate it. Yes, I was very active in the ASTI for many years and it's why I'm so annoyed that continuing in excess of full service, should a teacher wish to do that, is made so unattractive. Unions needs to raise awareness about this as I imagine it applies to other parts of the public service, especially in the light of a recruitment and retention crisis in the big cities.

But you are so very right about the value of retiring in good health.

@Ruffian, thanks again for your input. You have been so very helpful throughout this thread. I do indeed intend to continue doing a little work in some shape or form, but I would have liked the possibility of continuing in my familiar role, but it's not financially viable.

One last question if I may please? Is applying for the OAP at 66 a completely separate process from the occupational pension? Do I apply to my relevant SW office and when do I do that? In advance of my birthday or after? I need to get the occupational pension application form in 3 months in advance so was just wondering. Class D people don't have to worry about that but class A do, am I right?

Thanks everyone for all the great help and advice.
 
You have to apply for the COAP to Social Welfare. It is a completely independent process from your Occupational Pension. You should apply in advance if possible - I think 3 months prior to your 66th is recommended. Here is an outline of application paths:

"You can apply for your State Pension (Contributory) online at MyWelfare.ie if you have a verified MyGovID account.

Paper application

Download and complete a State Pension application form (SPC1).

You can also get an application form from:

 
@Ruffian, once again a million thanks. I really appreciate all the help. Another hefty form to wade through. I'd better get cracking on it as it's only just over 3 months to my 66th.
 
acequion said:
I'd better get cracking on it as it's only just over 3 months to my 66th.
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You'll be fine. The 3 months is just to ensure that all is processed and the payment can begin from your birthday. But even if it runs a bit beyond that it will be backdated.

Enjoy the retirement!.
 
@acequion, be sure to obtain a PRSI contribution statement from the my welfare.ie online, to ensure all the contributions and credits assigned to your record are in order, prior to applying for the SCOAP, as this can hold up things if there are errors on same and not addressed prior to your SCOAP application.
Enjoy the next chapter, be sure to make it the best one yet.
 
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