Penalty points - payment not accepted

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Cameo

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The registered owner of a car I was driving received a notification for penalty points for speedng.

The owner of the car returned the notice nominating me as the driver of the car.

I then received a new notice. I filled in the form giving details required and attached a cheque for €80 which is the correct amount if you pay the fine in the first 28 days of the date of the notice.

Today I get a letter saying that they are refusing to accept payment because I did not enclose a photocopy of my licence when I returned the notice. The letter also states that I will have to pay an increased fine of €120 if I do not return the notice with payment within 28 days of the date on the original notice.

My point is: The 28 days has now elapsed and no where in the notice does it specify I must return a photocopy of my drivers license... (THe notice did state that it is strongly recommended that you do)

Therefore surely I don't have to pay the higher amount?? or should I now go to court and appeal the points altogether because they failed to accept my payment for no good reason and I am unwilling to pay the higher fine?

Given I don't want to pay higher car insurance I would prefer to go to court if it mean't I had a high chance of not getting any points.

Any advice appreciated.
 
You are under no legal obligation to supply the Gardai with a photocopy of your licence, all that is required is your driver number. I would let it go to court and you will win.
 
bond-007 said:
I would let it go to court and you will win.
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I dont know - when you go to court (for any reason ) anything can happen, its like tossing a coin - remember the law is an ass ?? - so i'd think carefully about it as your penalty & fine will be doubled if you do happen to lose
 
I would hold out until court but I would document everything as it has happened to date and keep all correspondence or copies of it. Also keep notes of phone calls made always ask for a name of who you spoke with and what office dept they are in. Should work well if you are honest and straightforward in court oh and bring the reg owner of the car too and any evidence he might have to prove he was definitely not driving the car as the court may be a bit dubious about this bit.
The system really needs to get it's act together. Remember also it may have just been the person you were dealing with did not want to do their job and it was easier to proceed this way for them - still not good enough though.
Good luck with it. let us know how you get on even if it's a few months down the line.
 
Cameo said:
no where in the notice does it specify I must return a photocopy of my drivers license... (THe notice did state that it is strongly recommended that you do)
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This seems very unusual - Do you have the actual wording on the notice to hand?
 
Thanks all for the responses so far.

Rainyday - I don't have the notice with me but I will look at it this evening when I get home and put it up.
 
The exact wording on the notice is:

"It is strongly recommended that you send a photocopy of your licence with your payment to assist processing your payment"

Another part of the notice says if you are paying the fixed charge "you must sign the declaration below and give details of your driving/provisional licence ,otherwise your payment will not be accepted"

I duly signed the declaration gave my name as it appears on my licence and gave my licence number as instructed.

To me, it looks as though legally I have fulfilled any obligations.
 
If it does not clearly state a copy of licence must be forwarded with payment, your laughing!!! Keep all those documents really safe and you can have them apologise to you for all the extra hassle
 
chances are the guard won't even show up on the day and it'll be thrown out of court..fingers crossed for you!
 
Hi again
I tried paying fine again, although I tried paying €80 not increased €120 and again i did not enclose a copy of lisense. I also wrote a letter outlining reasons why.

So I got another letter back from a garda who said the problems was with the fines office and the fine levels were statutory - he did not respond on whether there was a legal requirement to enclose a photocopy of lisense.

Anyway they won't accept my payment unless I increase to €120 - I am a bit fed up and really don't want to pay higher amount -but then I don't want the hassle of going to court and risk of getting 4 points instead of 2

Does anyone know where it is possible to check precedents in district courts for this sort of thing? or do you just go along and to court on the day and take pot luck?
 
I am afraid that the district courts are a case of pot luck when it comes to this sort of thing. That said it seems that the Gardaí are being unreasonable. You should be able to defeat any summons on the basis of the letters received from the gardaí. There are no precedents online for the district courts, but if I was you I would take my chances in court.
 
Do you have a solicitor you used for conveyancing, preparing a will, etc.?

If so, it might be worth having a quick word with him/her to discuss where you should go from here.

Homer
 
I asked my solicitor about this already - he is of the view of accepting the points, he does not believe in fighting it - he suggested that I ring the guard to sort it out and enclose a photocopy of my lisense with the payment.
 
Cameo said:
I asked my solicitor about this already - he is of the view of accepting the points, he does not believe in fighting it - he suggested that I ring the guard to sort it out and enclose a photocopy of my lisense with the payment.
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Personally speaking, that is quite a poor response from a solicitor. I would fight it, but that is not for everyone.

At this stage to end the matter you will have to stump up the €120 as you are outside the 28 day window to get away with €80. There will be no leeway with the Gardaí on this. If you dawdle too much more the 56 days will be up and you will go to court.

It's up to you what you want to do, I would fight it purely on the principle of the thing but as I said earlier that ain't for everyone.
 
Bond-007

I disagree with my solicitor on this too. On a broader issue I think the whole premise of admitting a lessor offence against the threat of a court appearence is unfair to most people - because they don't want to risk it or because of the hassle fator..or are not legally minded.

For me, the hassle with going to court is more about where the court is - It will be Sligo direction and I'm in Dublin so I would have to take a day off work and go up there and I'd prefer not to essentially use one of my holidays to wait around a district court for judge to make some random (in my view) decison.. If I had a very good degree of certainty that I would win I'd be more likely to follow this approach.

You're right that I can't afford to dawdle any more on this - I have a few days left so I'll have to do something pronto..

Thanks again
 
today was day 56 and to avoid hassle of taking a day off work, I paid €120 fine in a post office today

Apparently reason they would not accept payment in first place is that I have a non-irish licence. Apparently penalty points cannot be applied either, although they did take my licence details.

Also only managed to get post office to accept payment on second attempt - the first one said she could not process it because the system did not recognise the number - what a load of ****.

The system really seems to be working...

If I get points again and the court is nearer Dublin, I'll be contesting.

This post should probably be moved to letting off steam section at this point....
 
They will keep the points warm for you until such time as you obtain an Irish Licence or they harmonise the points systems in the EU.

I wonder as you paid on day 56, will they claim that due to an posts clearing system they might not get the money for a few days then try and take you to court? IE the money did not reach Garda coffers in the 56 days.
 
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