Penalty Points Chaos

K

Kizzy

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Ive just read about the speeding cases being struck out yesterday due to the possible incorrect service of the original summons, which resulted in the defendents not receiving the inital fine in the post.

I have a question on this - I was one such person.

I did not receive notification of the fine in the post and only realised I had been speeding when the summons was posted in my letterbox one Sunday morning !. I should add that I would have had no problem paying the fine if I had received it.

I tried to argue this point with the judge in question, who would not allow me to speak. Result - €250 fine and 4 points. The deadline to appeal has since passed. Does anyone out there know, in light of the recent developments, if I can do anything about the conviction ?
 
Kizzy,

What did your solicitor have to say about this?

aj

crumb Im not entirely sure that FLAC are in a position to advise in this case. See this thread.
 
Yeh I would tend to agree re FLAC. I think they means test for assistance, and Im sure I would be over the limit. Didnt bother with a solicitor as I was under the impression ( mistakenly ! ) that I would have a voice and could explain to the judge about the non receipt of the original ticket. Will have to sort something out anyway.... Thanks for the help
 
Kizzy said:
I tried to argue this point with the judge in question, who would not allow me to speak. Result - €250 fine and 4 points. The deadline to appeal has since passed. Does anyone out there know, in light of the recent developments, if I can do anything about the conviction ?
Click to expand...

I really think you should consult with a good solicitor on this with regard to appealing your conviction. The judge surely has at least an obligation to hear you. Legal aid is means tested and generally would not be for speeding cases.
 
It is possible to extend the time for appeal. However having showed up in court is often deemed to validate the process. If it is true that the judge simply refused to listen to you (is this serious or just a figure of speech) you have grounds for appeal. You don't need a solicitor, the basic issue of fairness of proceedure is clear, did you get to offer a defence and were you properly informed of the charges. With 4 points in the bag you have nothing to loose. Of course if you want to get rid of the points you have to overturn the whole verdict, the judge (and as far as i can see nobody) hasn't the power to vary points.

NB This should not be construed as legal advice
 
Hi
As someone with simular type of complaint,and awaiting court appearance.I already spent a morning in courts ,but so many cases the day I was there,it was ajourned untill a future date,I did learn a thing or two while sitting in court for the morning,If you did not receive fine because you changed your address,then you dont have much chance as lots of people in court that morning had changed address but the onus is on you to inform the car registration people,that you have a new address so that they can post fines and tax renewals to you,How ever if you did not change address and still got summons with no fine ,I think you should challenge it,as I know other people who this has happened to and they got same trearment as you except that they were fined 700 euro,on second thoughts maybe you should count yourself lucky that the judge was in good mood and did not dole out a larger fine,This is not legal advice.Heres hoping that I can convince judge not to give me 4 points although at this stage I would not be backing my chances!
Regards
 
Lads yee face no chance of sucess in the district courts. Only a circuit court will be prepared to give you a fair hearing.
 
I didn't know that the Post Office worked on Sundays. Should it not be that a Guard has to physically serve you personally with it, or otherwise send registered post or something. (Was there a stamp on the envelope)
 
Kizzy said:
Yeh I would tend to agree re FLAC. I think they means test for assistance, and Im sure I would be over the limit.
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Just to put the record straight....FLAC is entirely free to all-comers. Although it exists ostensibly for the benefit of those who can't afford a Solicitor, in practice no check is made. Having said that, the occasional lawyer who provides the service may take exception if it becomes obvious that the client has already consulted his or her own Solicitor and is trying to get a free second opinion.

Bear in mind too that as the law is very specialised you are not guaranteed to meet a Solicitor or Barrister (which is what many of them are) who has actual experience in your area of interest. It's a great service which many many people appreciate and the lawyers always do their best. You'll always be told what they know about the subject but if you absolutely have to have expert advice you are safer paying for it.
 
pat127 said:
Just to put the record straight....FLAC is entirely free to all-comers. Although it exists ostensibly for the benefit of those who can't afford a Solicitor, in practice no check is made.

Does this mean that any millionaire can avail of free legal aid?

Is there not a practice of filling out a Statement of Means to stop this sort of thing?
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The Legal Aid Board does require detailed means statement, but FLAC does not and can be used by millionaires if they were so inclined.
 
Thanks folks for all your helpful responses.

mmclo - Seriously the judge refused to listen to me. My case was called and I approached the bar and when i realised I was not going to be allowed speak, I spoke directly to the judge and explained that I did not receive the original fine in the post. All he said was 'thank you', by this stage he had already imposed the fine on me !...it was all over in a minute and I had no chance to say anything else. And yes I too was under the impression that a person had to be physically served with a summons. To make it worse, it had been stuffed in an envelope which remained open and was found on the floor in the hall by my son !, that, more than anything else infuriated me that the Guards could be so unprofessional. I waited until the last day to pay the fine and than paid it as I was scared that I would be in worse trouble. But of course I had no opportunity to say all this to the judge. I suppose I feel a bit hard done by the justice system. Yes I was speeding and deserved the fine and original penalty points, this fact I am not disputing. I'll get in touch with FLAC anyway in the hope that I can have it overturned.

Thanks again for the pointers
 
Once you paid the fine there will be little chance of an appeal being allowed to go forward. Payment would be seen as acceptance of your punishment. Time to cut your losses.
 
Others will disagree but I think you have grounds for appeal, this is a bit of a lottery too and a lot of form filing, you may just get a rehearing leaving you back where you started. I don't see what you have to lose, It would be unlikely to have the fine increased for excercising you right to appeal. The right to be heard in court is a findamental one derining form the constitution.

see for example http://www.juradmin.eu/colloquia/1984/ireland.pdf

NB This should not be construed as legal advice

Seriously the judge refused to listen to me. My case was called and I approached the bar and when i realised I was not going to be allowed speak, I spoke directly to the judge and explained that I did not receive the original fine in the post. All he said was 'thank you', by this stage he had already imposed the fine on me !...
 
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