Overtime and On Call

I need your advice on this one folks

Firstly a quick overview:

I work in the IT dept of a fairly large financial services company. Over the
past few months, the work load has been gradually increasing and its
getting to the stage where 12 - 14 hour days are now the norm. Weekend
work is also becoming more common and although it says in my contract
that some out of hours work will be required, this is getting to the point of
crazy.

If we do have to come in on a Saturday or Sunday, we get a days holidays
but that to me is simplying paying us back the day we lost, we get nothing
extra for the actual hours worked. So if we do 60 hours in a week, we get
paid for the 35 or whatever it is they pay us for, not a penny more.

On call is also required and again, we get nothing for this.

Now, I love my job despite this, the work is interesting, the guys I work
with are a great bunch and I'm learning more and more everyday, however
working 60 hours+ a week is really getting to me, expecially when I see
contractors who work with me putting in bills for 50+ hours overtime a
month and they being signed off without even being questioned.

I've chatted with a few of my colleagues and we've decided to confront our
manager about this. Basically what we want are our contracts redone with
the following:

Defined hours of work
Defined rate of overtime.
Weekend rates.
On call rates.

There seem to be mixed views of what we can ask for, so this is where you
guys come in.

I need to know that following:

What do you guys think is a reasonable on call rate?
What is a fair rate for overtime whether it be mid week or weekend?

Thanks,
I.C

On call can be based on a rate, a call out rate or a combination of both.
Overtime should be at least 1.5 times your hourly rate (your weekly rate/39).

Nobody should be expected to work for free, it's a job not a vocation.

Irishchappie said:

What do you guys think is a reasonable on call rate?

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I would say 1.5 times your hourly rate at sociable hours and double if the night shift.
Dont go for a rate per call, as some days/nights that will be quieter than others and dont agree a rate based on case closure (assuming you are in some sort of support role), as you may work a long time on one issue and not be able to fix it.

Irishchappie said:

What is a fair rate for overtime whether it be mid week or weekend?

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As above, x1.5 for sociable and x2 for unsociable hours - cant say a € rate, as it depends on the type of work you are doing. For example, call centre telephone support for an ISP would be less than support for a major banks ATM network

Bank holidays if worked should get the above rates plus time off in lieu

Conshine said:

As above, x1.5 for sociable and x2 for unsociable hours - cant say a € rate, as it depends on the type of work you are doing. For example, call centre telephone support for an ISP would be less than support for a major banks ATM network

Bank holidays if worked should get the above rates plus time off in lieu

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Yes we work bank holidays, all of em, but again, this is in the contract and
our holidays are topped up as such.

The company is very highly dependent on technology and if they cant
access the systems or one or two go down, it could cost the company a lot
of money as they have obligations to financial markets etc.

So in essence, our work is vital for the operation of the company.

I was in the same situation as you. I worked support on a critical financial system for a US company.

I thought it was taking far too much out of me, so despite the nice money, I left.

To me it was like being the lobster in the pot with the water gradually getting hotter and hotter.

I'm now contracting for far more money for an Irish state sector organisation and I haven't looked back since.

Irishchappie said:

Now, I love my job despite this, the work is interesting, the guys I work
with are a great bunch and I'm learning more and more everyday

Click to expand...

This is a good point about the job

Irishchappie said:

however
working 60 hours+ a week is really getting to me

Click to expand...

This is not so good

Irishchappie said:

I see
contractors who work with me putting in bills for 50+ hours overtime a
month and they being signed off without even being questioned.

Click to expand...

If its not the hours that are getting to you and it is the fact that you are not getting paid for it, then why dont you become a contractor for the same company.
You like it there, but seem envious of the contractors.
You will lose some benefits such as holidays etc, but this could be the way to solve your problem.

In the same boat myself at the mo - O/T not in my contract but have come to a local desicion to get it paid as I am doing operational work at the weekends...ie work that has to be done at the weekend (it's a lot cheaper to pay me for some weekend work than to bring down production systems during the week)
Best of luck

A lot depends on your contract of employment. Most managers for example don't get paid overtime but are expected to work more hours and because of the salary they are on, see it as part of the job requirement
Overtime is not compulsary in most jobs and whilst and employer can ask, they cannot force you to work it. What would happen one Friday evening if you all simply went home and said "see you on Monday

bear in mind as well that your employers could be in danger of breeching the Working time directive here if this persists?

Do you get performance Bonuses ??

1. Callout rates during week and weekend should have a different rate.

2. Public Holidays iscovered under legislation on OASIS , check it out.

3. Standard OT rates also on OASIS.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories use this and other posters recs to establish your baseline changes.

Cheers for the replies guys.

I'm not envious of contractors, far from it.. they work as hard as any of us
and do deserve to be paid for it. What gets to me is how the company are
so willing to just hand the money over to them, without even giving it a
second thought and when it comes to their employees, they nit pick about
every little thing.

Well at the moment our HR are a joke, they just brush everything under the
carpet and the HR manager knows they have a handy number so
approaching them about the whole breaking worktime regulations thing
would be a complete waste of time..

This is why I think the whole over time thing has never been bought in, as
when HR are approached about anything, they act like they are interested,
say they will look into it and we never hear from them again..

So I'm thinking of taking it over their head..

All HRs do that, I believe it has become a standard tactic. They tell you they are looking into it, and you die / retire waiting ......

To get some traction on your request, you may all have to decide to stop working the extra hours, as long as this does not infringe on terms and conditions, and hope the company do not isolate someone and reprimand them, forcing you to make a quick decision on how to react.

Maybe you should talk to a Union, and make a joint decision to follow this path.

Unfortunately unions wouldnt hold much water here.. like most american
companies, they dont recognise them so I think thats noy gonna help
much..

I've started the ball rolling and basically told em dont expect to see me at
my desk after 5.30 come the start of next year, no weekends and no on
call.. Ive refused a company phone and informed them that my mobile
phone no has changed and they wont be getting my new number as its a
personal one and they have no right to have it.. I've given them my land
line instead where I can screen calls..

So lets see what happens there considering I live the closest to work by
miles and its something they have abused in the past as I can literally be in
the office in 15 mins anytime day or night..

Lets see how they cope waiting for an hour or more from now on when a system goes down

Well done Irishchappie. I hope you get a positive result.

Flax said:

Well done Irishchappie. I hope you get a positive result.

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Yea, and they don't just white wall you...

Yeah, be careful that you don't become the only one who is going to stick to their guns. At this stage, you haven't refused to do any overtime, so maybe now is the time to take a quick poll of your colleagues to find out what they are planning to do when they are asked.

Even if none of them will back you, it will still inform you as to how far you can push it/how much leverage you have when dealing with HR.

Agree with Outspann,

If your leadin, the charge, keep looking behind to make sure you do not distance yourself from your colleagues.

Its dangerous being the busybody of the working classes.

Oh I had no problems doing a bit of overtime here and there.. that worked fine for me.. its part of the job afterall..
however its now hitting about 20+ hours a week and there are weekends too.. so I've basically told em I've had
enough and if you want me there, stump up..

If they turn around and say you dont need to do overtime, that suits me.
No loss and no gain..

I'm not planning on speaking for all the group, this is just between me and my manager. If the others want to
join in thats their choice but I'm not doing the asking for them. Its none of my business what hours they work
and I dont want to be seen as being a busybody..

Lets see what happens, if they do whitewall me, so be it, guess I'll be job hunting in the new year..

I.C

If I work overtime I get time and a half for the first three hours and double time thereafter. I can also opt for time in lieu.

But if I opt for time in lieu it's only hour for hour. Is this correct?

Could somebody please clarify and maybe give me a link.

Many thanks.

Euro,


Thats correct. Strange banking hours though, when OT available

I.C. - I've been reading this thread with interest, and I have another way of looking at this. It's not exactly what you came looking for - but bear with me...

Irishchappie said:

... this is getting to the point of
crazy...

...working 60 hours+ a week is really getting to me...

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...just wondering if the problem for you could be more than not getting paid for your overtime and weekends. If you do get the extra money, (and you should be getting it), you'll still be working the hours.

I'm speaking from experience here. I've always been self employed, and spent 18 years up to last year working 80 hour weeks. It was crazy. I was my own boss, so it was all my own doing, no one was holding a gun to me - but I just got it in to my head that it was worth it because I was making more money. It was a buzz at first, but after a while I started to have real problems with stress, and most of the time wasn't even aware of it. Finaly, a few months ago, I realised I had to cut my work load back, and the more I thought about it the more I understood how crazy it was. So I really chopped it back - to about 30 hours a week. I'm earning less, but I have more than enough, and I honestly feel like I've just got out of prison. I can meet friends for a coffee now. Go for a pint. Watch a match. Take weekend breaks to wherever. Like, wow!

I'm not saying don't do overtime... just pointing out that your first post seemed initially to be saying more about the heavy workload than the money.

Just be careful not to negotiate yourself into a situation where you're locked into earning good money, but getting completely burned out. It's easy to get into, but hard to get out of. It's not worth it.

Everyone has their own story, that's just mine.