Health Insurance Nursing Home Support Scheme - Schedule/List of Assets

James779

Registered User
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1
Hello,

My Dad passed away earlier this year after 2 1/2 years in Nursing Home under fair deal scheme.
Nursing home took great care of him.
HSE have sent form out looking for Schedule/list of Assets at time of death. All the assets go to my Mother so need for Probate process.
I would like to ask about House valuation for this List of Assets. When we applied for fair deal the house valuation was 170,000.00 for 3 bed semi-detached house in North County Dublin.
This value came from Estate Agent and may have been a bit on the conservative side although House is 40 years old. There has been no recent house sales in our estate to compare valuation.
It is up to ourselves to estimate current house valuation. Property prices would have gone up considerably in the 2 1/2 years since fair deal application was completed.
I am worried about HSE billing us a lot extra based on increased property valuation.
Is this valid worry and Has anybody had to return similar form recently?

thank you
 
James,

Sorry to hear about your Dad's passing.
We are in the same process with my Grandmother's property and the Fair Deal Scheme. The valuation at the time the Fair Deal was applied for is the only valuation that stands for the HSE 'loan' payment. Property values could have also gone down and that's just the luck of the draw.

Hope that helps.
 
HSE have sent form out looking for Schedule/list of Assets at time of death.


Don’t think you have anything to worry about re the increased value of the house.

I think what the HSE are after with the schedule of assets is any assets that were undeclared at the time of application.

It appears, 25% of Fair Deal applicants forget to mention some of their bank accounts or other assets when first applying for the scheme.

http://www.independent.ie/business/...r-of-people-underdeclare-assets-35404772.html
 
I'm wondering that when probate is taken out on a deceased persons estate is there joined up thinking by the different departments and revenue that can claw back anything that's not been declared?
 
That appears to be the case.

The personal representative of the deceased, who I guess is the executor is obliged to disclose all assets to the HSE before distribution. This is what it says at the bottom of page 6.

’Please note that if a person knowingly gives false or misleading information in connection with an application for State support, he/she is guilty of an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €5,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or both. In cases where a person does not disclose or makes a misstatement in respect of the amount or value of income/assets and receives a greater amount of State support than would have been the case if there had been disclosure or no misstatement, the overpayment must be repaid by the person on demand and may be recovered by the HSE as a simple contract debt from the person or estate of that person.’’

’Please note that the personal representative of a deceased person is legally obliged as soon as practical but in any case not less than 3 months before any distribution of assets of the estate of the person give the HSE (a) a schedule of assets that is applicable to the estate of the deceased person and (b) notice in writing of the representatives intention to distribute the assets. A Personal Representative who does not retain sufficient assets of the estate to repay any amount due and payable to the HSE will be held personally liable for that amount.’’

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/olderpeople/nhss/Application-Form-NHSS1.pdf
 
I fully agree that everything must be disclosed but I'm amazed we haven't heard more about this if they're clawing it back. Certain radio programmes would be all over it, especially after the news at 1.
 
If there is a significant difference between the 2 amounts they will look for an explanation for the difference and if they feel the house was undervalued at the time of application for the Fair Deal they may request funds back.
 
If an asset is not included or under declared they will calculate the difference that the support would have been at the time of granting the aid if these assets were included. They will then bill you for this amount. Speaking from experience:(
 
Hi sooty,

Were your circumstances different to James779’s ?

In his case there is no mention of undeclared assets, the only concern seems to be a conservative house valuation from an Estate Agent that was submitted 2.5 years ago. I would be surprised if all valuations for Fair Deal were not a bit on the conservative side.

The explanation for the considerable difference between the price then and now is that house prices have risen significantly in that time, I don’t think anyone can dispute that.

Unless the Estate Agent grossly undervalued the house 2.5 years ago, then I can’t see James779 having a problem.
 
Yes our circumstances were slightly different - i won't go into specifics..........i agree with you that the only concern is the conservative house value - i was just pointing out if there is a HUGE difference in valuations they will query it and may look for a fresh valuation from 2.5 years ago but again only if there was a large difference.
 
I'm not surprised that more posters aren't saying they've been "caught out". I'd imagine that most, if not all, going into nursing home have taken care to distribute cash, or have it conveniently put away, same with assets like shares, etc. As I said the snowflakes in our society would be kicking up a right stink if they thought they'd have to contribute and there's plenty of media outlets out there to air their concerns.
 
It might not be a case of being "caught out" sometimes family are not fully aware of maybe all assets that their parents have or things like that.
 
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