Newry Traffic Chaos

Sunny · 25 Nov 2009

Complainer said:
That's not what he said.

I'm always curious about why people who object to something feel obligated to pontificate about how to do it better. You object to people striking and picketing, but you keep rabbiting on about how they can strike or picket better! Perhaps when you've had a few years at running strikes (as opposed to slagging them off), you might actually know something about how to improve them. This is the real hurler on the ditch (at the rugby match).

Yes it is. They admitted there had to be temporary adjustments in the pay bill while working on reform. Hardly the 'we are not taking any more cuts' message that you say was the prime objective.

Perhaps also you could point out where I said I objected to people striking and picketing? I don't agree with it but that's different. People have the right to strike and picket. Just wish they would do it properly if they feel so strongly about what they are striking about. And by the way, you can hardly talk about rabbiting on!

bond-007 · 25 Nov 2009

I don't see the issue with the public servants going to Newry for the day.
Also If I disagreed with the strike, I would simply stay home and leave the picketing to those that want to strike.

Caveat · 25 Nov 2009

mathepac said:
But then I heard (on the RTE wireless news) that if the entire CS / PS stayed at home for a day the saving in wages for the Minister for Hardship would be €60m

Is this a roughly accurate figure does anyone know?

Complainer · 25 Nov 2009

Sunny said:
Yes it is. They admitted there had to be temporary adjustments in the pay bill while working on reform. Hardly the 'we are not taking any more cuts' message that you say was the prime objective.

'temporary adjustments in the pay bill' is not the same as 'adjustments in pay'.

Sunny said:
Perhaps also you could point out where I said I objected to people striking and picketing? I don't agree with it but that's different. People have the right to strike and picket. Just wish they would do it properly if they feel so strongly about what they are striking about.

Is it crazy to think that perhaps you might want to participate in a strike or two, hang around a union for a while, walk up and down on a picket, attend a few union branch meetings BEFORE you appoint yourself the expert to decide 'how to do it properly'?

Sunny · 25 Nov 2009

Complainer said:
'temporary adjustments in the pay bill' is not the same as 'adjustments in pay'.

Is it crazy to think that perhaps you might want to participate in a strike or two, hang around a union for a while, walk up and down on a picket, attend a few union branch meetings BEFORE you appoint yourself the expert to decide 'how to do it properly'?

I am everyone else couldn't care less what you call it or how you do it as long as the savings are made. Seems to me though then that the strike yesterday was about semantics if the reports are true.

That is crazy talk!

Purple · 25 Nov 2009

Complainer said:
'temporary adjustments in the pay bill' is not the same as 'adjustments in pay'.

Good point; there's a huge face-saving exercise between them.

Complainer · 25 Nov 2009

Sunny said:
I am everyone else couldn't care less what you call it or how you do it as long as the savings are made.

Congratulations on your appointment as spokesperson for 'everyone else'. Best of luck in this challenging role.

Your feedback on approach to picketing will be given all the attention it deserves by the TU movement.

Markjbloggs · 25 Nov 2009

Complainer said:
Congratulations on your appointment as spokesperson for 'everyone else'. Best of luck in this challenging role.

Your feedback on approach to picketing will be given all the attention it deserves by the TU movement.

I'm everybody else....

Complainer · 25 Nov 2009

Markjbloggs said:
I'm everybody else....

Me too, strangely enough.

liaconn · 25 Nov 2009

Latrade said:
I think this may be why there was some raised eye brows. It doesn't matter where the shopping happened, it was the fact that it appears quite a few went shopping when it is a strike.

Now there's nothing to say they can't, but someone must see how that looks? We're told about the huge support for the strike, how people are scared and fear what the government will do, their anger, etc and then some, a few, several, many, whatever, treat it as a day off and head off shopping.

Hospital services were cut back, gardai not issuing fixed penalty notices, benefits not paid etc and we "see" people who supposed to be on strike shopping.

Whether it was one or hundreds, I'm sure you can see why some may have an issue with the concept.

No, I don't. 'On Strike' means we were withdrawing our labour and losing a day's pay for withdrawing that labour. How we chose to organise picket duty and what we did when we were not picketing is our business.

bond-007 · 25 Nov 2009

Indeed it is and fair play to you for taking a stand.

mathepac · 26 Nov 2009

Caveat said:
Is this a roughly accurate figure does anyone know?

That's what was quoted on the lunch-time RTE wireless news. The reporter gave the Dept of Finance as the source with the proviso that to make the savings all PS / CS employees would need to be on strike. The spokesperson was unable to quantify the savings on Tuesday as some services were being delivered by staff working normal rotas.

Sunny · 26 Nov 2009

Complainer said:
Congratulations on your appointment as spokesperson for 'everyone else'. Best of luck in this challenging role.

Your feedback on approach to picketing will be given all the attention it deserves by the TU movement.

Remind me again what the strike was about?

Purple · 26 Nov 2009

Complainer said:
Me too, strangely enough.

I don't know about that!

Staples · 26 Nov 2009

I look forward to the school holiday of 8th December where I hope to witness an equally comprehensive reporting of Newry-bound traffic.

It will be interesting to see the extent to which last Tuesday's traffic may just have been the consequence of the schools being closed.

liaconn · 26 Nov 2009

They'll probably still insist that it's public servants 'using up' one of their sick days before the end of the year!!

bond-007 · 26 Nov 2009

Well paper has never refused ink.

Latrade · 26 Nov 2009

liaconn said:
No, I don't. 'On Strike' means we were withdrawing our labour and losing a day's pay for withdrawing that labour. How we chose to organise picket duty and what we did when we were not picketing is our business.

I'm not judging those who did it, I'm asking if you can't understand why some people felt either anger or disbelief at the situation? If you really don't, then that's very blinkered.

Think of those services that directly affected individuals like health care and education, the areas that meant some had to use their own annual leave or possibly even unpaid leave to accomodate. Can you not see how they might feel some discontent if some of those who created the issue didn't protest, but went shopping instead?

Again, no judgement on the people who did so, but it isn't too much of an overstatement to say that they were very short-sighted if they didn't think there would be public reaction to it.

Complainer · 26 Nov 2009

Latrade said:
Can you not see how they might feel some discontent if some of those who created the issue didn't protest, but went shopping instead?

There is no basis for their assumption that anyone who went to Newry didn't do their bit on the picket line before or after.

liaconn · 26 Nov 2009

Latrade said:
I'm not judging those who did it, I'm asking if you can't understand why some people felt either anger or disbelief at the situation? If you really don't, then that's very blinkered.

Think of those services that directly affected individuals like health care and education, the areas that meant some had to use their own annual leave or possibly even unpaid leave to accomodate. Can you not see how they might feel some discontent if some of those who created the issue didn't protest, but went shopping instead?

Again, no judgement on the people who did so, but it isn't too much of an overstatement to say that they were very short-sighted if they didn't think there would be public reaction to it.

Latrade

The reason we weren't out all day was because of the sheer numbers involved. Even with a roster we got very clear instructions fom our Union that we were not to block the streets or impede passers by in any way. It seems to be a case of damned if we do and damned if we don't. I'm sure if people didn't have shopping in Newry to give out about it would be 'angry mobs taking over the streets and refusing to let us go about our lawful business' or some other rubbish.

The point of the protest was withdrawing labour. A rostered picket was then organised to highlight the fact that we were on strike. We all lost a day's pay for the strike. We were not allowed take annual leave or flexi leave or anything like that. If Bus Eireann went on strike and staff lost a day's pay I honestly couldn't care less how they spent the day. The impact on me would be that the buses weren't running. I really think this thread is ridiculous. If we have to do another day's strike could you and other AAMers give me a list of 'suitable' activities I can engage in when not on the picket that won't offend any of you.

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