need out of mobile contract

J

johnmck

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I've 6 months left of a mobile contract with Three. I got Eircom phonewatch in but Three have no agreements with them , so no alerts will come to my phone if the alarm goes off.

Three will not let me out of contract to move elsewhere.
 
Did you let them know that Eircom phonewatch alerts were a requirement for you. If so, they misinformed you and you might have a chance. if not, then they have no obligation to let you out.
 
Ok - I need a way out. Three have no mobile coverage in Fermanagh or very little - could be an excuse
 
Telecommunications companies have been breaking the law for years. YES, I will immediately name my authoritative source for that. COMREG.

See COMREG 0749 for more info (a PDF easily downloadable from COMREG website. enter 07 49), but essentially all Irish telecommunications companies have been breaking European law since 2003. I can guarantee that that is still the situation today.

See COMREG 10-34 for compliance tests performed on Vodafone, Meteor, Three (Hutchinson isn't it?) and Eircom among others. Tests carried out in 2010, all of the above companies failed, and are thus breaking European law.. laws which came into effect in 2003.

Our government has done nothing about this, and yes, I have complained to government ministers, who don't care, nor do COMREG, nor do the government department. I have specifically emailed every member of the Green party, and Fianna Fail and Fianna Gael.. you might not believe me but I got absolutely nowhere, despite doing all of that, and COMREG themselves acknowledging that this lawbreaking is ongoing, and has been for years. (That's a fact, not opinion, COMREG do not deny this, see their published reports, 0749, and 1034 among others)

My complaint to the EU was more successful, but still very tricky. I think Ireland is now on the way to becoming compliant. I keep embarrassing the EU by asking for press releases stating that EU law doesn't apply in Ireland, and that the EU don't care if 1.5 million Irish people, (40% of population), are being forced to enter into illegal contracts by the Irish Government. They refuse to issue such a press release, although the situation has been correctly described, and I have been complaining to them since 2009. But I think they are putting pressure on COMREG to observe European law for a change, and COMREG will eventually have to comply, just not quickly enough, I'll have been asking for my rights for nearly five years at that stage.


My point is... tell them this, you're not paying due to their lawbreaking, and cancel your direct debit, .. let them take you to court, if they do, produce the COMREG reports saying that your contract is illegal, and thus null and voided... certainly the contract was not entered into in good faith, as the company knew it was against EU law.

You won't see a courtroom, I have been inviting such prosecutions for years. Like Atheist Ireland deliberately publishing 20 blasphemous quotes, .. to invite prosecution and to show what a scam the law is. The government refuse to prosecute them... so why are we wasting our time with this stuff in the Dail?

This might not be a popular posts with the mods, but the situation is correctly described, no opinion at all.. it's all facts.

Cheers
 
Hi

It is broader than just broadband,.. it applies to all telecommunications services.

Some quotes, all from COMREG, and all of which confirm my contention that COMREG have not done (some aspects of) their job, for 9 years. (My emphasis, bolded text)




So COMREG clearly state, in 2003, that they do have an obligation to ensure compliance with these compulsory EU laws. These laws apply to all telecommunications services.


Fast Forward to 2007.

So, in 2007, four years after the laws came into force, all broadband companies were non-compliant. All 74 of them.

No change today (August 2011).. every single broadband provider, and every provider of telecommunications services, operating in Ireland, is breaking European law, and has been for years. Those are the facts.

If this is the level of respect granted to individuals by Government departments and the government itself, then what's the point? The government clearly hates the public, and would much rather we were all dead... they certainly will not even engage on this issue, as I said I have attempted to contact every TD in the last Dail, and not a single one responded.

So I have lost faith in our government, and our system of government, it simply doesn't work. The government defend this level of non-performance by COMREG, and they clearly think it's ok for Ireland to be in breach of EU law for nine years.. they simply don't care. So why should we?
 
I have written Pat Rabbitte a letter on this issue, he's the minister with responsibility..

 
Hi Joe, could you clarify what laws are being broken here as it's a bit hard to decipher from the above?
 
Yes, it can be complicated.

The law is mentioned in detail in COMREG 03-129.


COMREG acknowledge both that they have an obligation to ensure compliance, and that all companies are non-compliant, 8 years after the law was passed. That's it in a nutshell.
 
I rang three mobile Ireland and asked for a copy of my contract. The Indian on the other end of the phone didn't understand what I meant by contract. After a lengthily discussion he said I didn't have a contract. To just go read the terms and conditions. So I said "I want to come out of contract", and he said " you want to cancel your contract" He understood then.

What way should I push this?
 
Well, my quote directly above your message states that any company that provides access to the public telephone network must do so according to a contract.

That contract can however be very hard to find. It should be on the website, but really they should send it to you if you request it. There are over 50 sets of terms and conditions on the Meteor site, and other operators are similar, so it certainly isn't an easy thing to find your own contract. COMREG offer no help in this regard... in fact COMREG once searched a website for my contract, and couldn't find it.. yet they refuse to do anything about the fact that customers don't have easy access to their own contracts (as per the law).


So insist that the Indian sends you copies or links to all specific contracts that apply to you.. Three might have three or more contracts that apply.. for example, TCs that relate to the use of the website, or TCs that relate to voice calls, and TCs that relate to data. You shouldn't have to find them all, they should send you the documents.



You could specifically ask where the mandatory info is contained within their contract. (As per COMREG 07-49). This will cause them problems, as all telecommunications will know that they are breaking the law, yet they can hardly admit it.

So they will refuse to answer, in varied and imaginative ways. For example, they may not understand you. Or they may fail to reply to written enquiries. Eventually you can make yourself heard.. then you start to receive badly written, non-sensical replies from more senior people. Occasionally you receive emails in error that were supposed to be sent only internally, and relating to you. They can be fun. In my experience you will not receive an explanation as to why the company is ignoring the law. In my experience companies will deny any lawbreaking, despite the COMREG reports. So that fits the dictionary definitation of delusional perfectly.

You can exit your contract early, and pay the cancellation fee. Or you could ask COMREG to rule on whether your contract is legal or not, if you can find your contract. That will likely take a year or longer. Or you could cancel your direct debit, and take the chance of going to court.

I'd suggest complaining to COMREG, making clear that you are complaining due to the issues contained in COMREG 07-49. That you have cancelled your direct debit and that you consider yourself to be scott free and out of contract. Do COMREG disagree?.. in my experience COMREG will accept this, and advise the company not to chase you. Be wary of COMREG delaying tactics, and incompetence (likely feigned.. examples being, 'we've lost your complaint, lets go back to the beginning, which was several months ago'.. or 'person transferred, lets begin again').

If going to court I'd advise giving the impression that you'd be delighted with your chance to go to court, and that you'll be inviting all your journalist friends along, who'll all be very interested in witnessing the telecommunications industry finally having to answer to a judge for their many years of lawbreaking. Of course you'd also have been recording your phone calls to the company, etc etc, so you should also be able to demonstrate their utter incompetence.


Cheers
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ok, if I try to transfer my number to a different phone provider I'm guessing Three are not going to let the number port off their network!
 
as you can see the contact form on their website does not work!

[broken link removed]
 
johnmck said:
Ok, if I try to transfer my number to a different phone provider I'm guessing Three are not going to let the number port off their network!
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't they?


A phone company not allowing you to port your number due to outstanding bills is explicitily addressed on the COMREG website, ... companies are not allowed to deny you porting due to bills owed.

However, some operators include that condition in their contract, despite what COMREG say. Such contracts are in breach of COMREG guidelines. But guidelines are worthless, as I informed COMREG of the illegal conditions being applied, and COMREG, quelle surprise, did nothing. I told them over a year ago.


COMREG and the telecommunications companies are your enemy, and they work together to frustrate your complaints, and to deny you your European rights. COMREG is an agency of the Irish Gov, and so it is the Irish Government who is denying you your rights. They aren't just omitting to take certain acts.. they actively prevent you from obtaining your rights, by making false statements and lying. (Yes, I can back that up, with documentary evidence)


I've been begging Europe to issue daily fines of approx 50K per day, backdated to 2003 (when the law came into force), or 2007 at a minimum (when COMREG first determined that all 74 companies operating in Ireland were breaking the law). That's the only thing that will wake our government up. The Irish government has certainly been aware of the 100% level of non-compliance since July, 2007. Not a single company is compliant as of August 2011.


The laws relating to septic tanks came in in the 1970s, still ignored by Ireland today, despite three European court cases which we've lost. So this telecommunications issue may run for another two decades.
 
Pat never answered my previous email, so I've sent him a reminder.

[quote="Joes second letter to Pat Rabbitte']
Hi Pat

Can you please confirm receipt of the forwarded email below, and indicate when you'll be in a position to respond. I'm not going away you know. I'm hoping that your government will cease giving 'Get of of Jail free' cards to entire private industries.... that's been the situation for the last nine years... where the Irish Goverment has refused to take a single punitive action against any of the 74 companies acknowledged to be breaking the laws for years on end.


It is actually even more serious than that.. your department, and COMREG, have actively taken actions, specifically designed to prevent me from obtaining my rights, .. so in that sense your government is culpable. Your government is actively assisting private companies in breaking EU law.


An example of the above would be COMREG, who ruled that my specific instance of a contract was legal, despite ruling that the generic contract was illegal, both before and after ruling that my specific instance was legal. So COMREG deliberately made a ruling designed to frustrate me in obtaining my rights. Do you dis-agree with that?

The only contract ever to have been ruled compliant in this country by COMREG is my specific instance of a generic contact.. but the generic contract has been deemed to be illegally formed by COMREG, both before and after my specific instance was deemed to be compliant. The offending company is still using illegal contracts more than three years later, as acknowledged twice since by COMREG, in 2009, and 2011.


There has never been a credible explanation as to why a specific instance of a contract can be legal, where the generic contract is not legal. COMREG refuse to engage on the issue, and can thus be said to be actively facilitating private companies in breaking EU law. COMREG have never engaged on this issue, not at all. Your department defended COMREGs actions, and rubbished my complaint.



I don't appreciate my government treating me in this deplorable way. it makes no sense, and is indicative of our failing government, and our failing process of ruling ourselves. Everything I've said above is true, and I invite you to demonstrate a single falsehood.



So a response form you would be appropriate at this stage. You can call me if you wish, or I can meet you in person. I would most prefer to meet you in person.

Any help you could offer would be much appreciated.

Regards
Joe
[/quote]
 
An assistant of Pat Rabbittes has emailed me confirming receipt of my two emails, and stating that they will be brought to the ministers attention.
 
No further reply from Pat, so I have sent him a third email. The previous acknowledgement of receipt from Pat was from his Dept. of Comms. email address,... his personal assisant type person replied from Pat in his capacity as Minister for Comms. I have also sent Pat the same emails to his Oirechtas address,.. he wears his TD hat in that case. This is a subtle distinction but the Ombudsma, Emily O Reilly, can only investigate claims of people being ignored and mis-informed if its done by a Gov. Dept, .. TDs can ignore or mis-inform you at will, and nothing can be done in the sense of complaining to someone.

The point is that I am attempting to engage with Pat through both of his titles, speaking directly to each of his hats as it were... this distinction can be important. So a reply on his behalf has come from one hat (the Dept. hat), . the second, TD hat, has ignored me thus far.


So this is my third email to Pat, in the Dept. of Comms, where an assisant has acknowledged my previous emails.
[Quote='Joes third letter, (to Dept. Comms)]
Hi Damian, Pat

Can I ask, has Pat Rabbitte seen my emails yet?, and when can I expect a response? This is a matter of some urgency, and a speedier initial reply from Pat would be appropriate I feel.


My intention is to complain to the Ombudsman, Emily O Reilly, if Pat fails to respond in a reasonable time frame. Three weeks have passed since my initial contact,.. your Customer Charter promises that you 'will endeavour to comprehensively answer' my 'correspondence within 20 working days.'

I would expect and hope that your Dept. can live up to that lofty claim, and provide me with an initial response at least within the next five working days, and also that that response should contain a timetable for the full resolution of this ongoing issue.


Many thanks for your help in this regard, it's much appreciated.


Regards
Joe

[/quote]


The Dept. of Comms. must acknowledge that all telecommunications companies in Ireland, 74 of them, have been breaking the law for nine years, as per COMREG reports. Alternatively they must state clearly that COMREG are wrong, and then they should justify COMREGs continued existence. I feel that the Dept. of Comms will not do either of these things, and so a complaint to the Ombudsman, Emily O Reilly will probably be necessary.


I will also continue to try to contact Pat while he has this TD hat on.

Cheers
 
I have sent Pat a third email.. he hasn't responded from his TD address yet. First email 5th August, follow up 15th august, all ignored so far. 3rd email today on the 30th August.

 
No reply as of 21st Sept, 2011 from Pat Rabbitte.

He is certainly a coward who is ignoring this issue. I have rang his constituency office asking for confirmation of receipt of my emails on several occasions... on the last of these calls they politely said 'thank you' and hung up. So it seems I may be 'barred' from contacting them again.

Pat Rabbitte would like to allow 74 private companies to continue to break both Irish and EU law... which has been going on for nine years now.

I have asked to attend his constituency office,.. his office have refused due to me not being a constituent of his. His office have refused to give me his clinic times... perhaps in a vain hope that I won't be able to find out by another means.


As Pat refuses to engage there is little I can do. Does the general public have any right of access at all to TDs?

My next approach would be to picket his constituency office, and invite journalists along if possible. I would also attempt to door step Pat in various locations. Perhaps I should have a funny suit made up,.. that'd get me, and my issue, into the papers.

It's certain that simply enquiring about this issue doesn't work... there are over six million current breaches of these laws, and yet nothing happens.


I have written to the likes of Pat Kenny, and Joe Duffy,.. nothing seems to happen. I'm surprised at Joe Duffy, as the failure of companies to provide legal contracts is dis-advantaging many many Irish people. The fact that all Irish telecommunications companies break the law (74 of them), and have done so for nine years, with the connivance of the Irish State is shocking to me.
 
I have complained about Pat Rabbitte's lack of response to the Ombudsman, Emily O Reilly. An investigation is ongoing.


In the meantime I have made some enquiries of the Dept. itself (DCENR), by initially asking for direction as to whom within the Dept. I should direct certain enquiries, and then by sending the following email in response to a response from the Dept. asking what type of enquiries I wished to enquire about.

 
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