My sister wants to sell the family home, but I don't

WicklowMan

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Hello everyone,

Apologies to Admin. if this is in the wrong place. My father passed away 3 months ago and despite 5 or 6 trips to his Solicitor to make a Will, it seems there's no will. There is one other sibling who says "money" and "talk to my solicitor" a lot. I'm sentimentally attached to the house, having lived alone there with the man for 16 years.

I'll try and keep this brief as possible. In 2002 I bought a renovation property in Tipperary. Even with the recession, it's worth x3 what I paid for it, but is not quite finished and so that's not the best for selling. It's in a priceless location with priceless features, and the original plan was to market it as a holiday home ... slow burner, basically.

My father's house - of which I'm half owner - is in Bray, and it's been valued at 265k. I think that's way over myself, 240 would be more in line with the condition. According to my solicitor, I comfortably have a year before anything is forced in terms of sale. As it's where I grew up, I want to keep a foothold in the area. Sorry, I know it's sentimental but there you go.

I am currently unemployed and don't fancy my chances of getting anything from Banks. I fancy my chances of getting a job, but not at the wage my line of work (Graphic Design) used to pay. Thinking about this the other day, something struck me. Property is a dirty word these days, but I have one worth x3 what I bought it for, and the other (my father's) which is damn near as rock - bottom as it's ever going to get.

Okay, magic - wand time. In order to get my sister off my back, I need 130k. Actually I'd be more inclined to offer 115-20k. I don't care if I end up not living in my father's house, as long as I retain half ownership with an option to buy (this would have to be strongly legally bound obviously). I don't want money out of the house, I can look after myself and my own place.

In short, if the house sold I'd be wandering around with a bit over 100k. and looking to invest in property. Before anyone says it, no, I'm not losing the run of myself on that score. I am well aware that the days of the property dream are gone. This is about the thing ticking over and supporting itself to an end - not liquid finance and mad rent. I am a believer in property - at a sane level - being a good investment. As I see it presently, selling either would be incredibly negative in today's market.

Basically what I need to do is replace my sister with someone less feverent for money and with a buy - back option + commission. Can anyone think of a way of working this in a logical fashion? I was thinking in terms of renting my father's house, in a partnership with someone for a set period. I don't mind if I'm out of the place for 15 - 20 years. It's got to be a good deal for someone?

Any advice much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Tony.
 
When I read your post Tony I hadn't a clue what you were on about.

But anyways .... here goes:

First things first .... park your emotions at the door. Finances and emotions are a bad mix.

You're unemployed, you can't afford to buy your sister out so the house will end up being sold.

Take the money, and rent. Do up the property in Tipp and go live in the priceless location ... mortgage free and with the property renovated.

Get a computer, internet access, advertise your graphic design services on elance etc., earn some cash and live the simple life.

Be happy with the good memories you have from Bray but look to the future.

That's my tuppence worth Tony!
 
Thanks for the reply Paddy.

When I read your post Tony I hadn't a clue what you were on about.

In short, need to dispense with twitchy sibling (not in a bad way ) and buy time. Not fussed about making money out of it for a very long time. In the overall view, not economically a good time to do anything anyway.

I've realized I'm not in a position to do anything realistically, I'm more so trying to look at this from a cold business perspective ... and trying to see if there's a way of doing something in that line.

Financial advisor had recommended renting to the council on a 5 year thing, but I'm afraid it's "talk to the hand" re: the other party (ie: sister) Basically if she doesn't see money that's that.

Thx,

Tony.

PS: Internet connectivity is a joke in Nth. Tipp!
 
I reckon you'll have no choice but to sell if she so adament that she wants money immediately.

I have a do upper house in the sticks in Kerry and I've got a mifi from 3 for when I'm there. Great speed and it's pay as you go. €35 per month for a 30 gig allowance ... more than enough.

More info here: [broken link removed]

so broadband shouldn't be an issue.

Approach her about the renting, if she says no then you'll have to face the fact that the house will be sold.

From a cold business perspective ..... you don't have many options.

Your ace in the hole ... the house in Tipp. .... I still think you should make it your part of Paradise!
 
If you already own half the house,then is your fathers estate not half the value of the house?So dont you owe your sibling closer to €60k ?
 
The reality is that you can't afford to own two homes.

What is more, you can't afford the risk of owing two homes.

Decide which one you are most emotionally attached to. If Tipperary is the holiday home, put it on the market.

Your sister's insistence on selling might play into your hand. Put it on the open market. When she is ready to accept an offer, then you can buy it.

Talk to your solicitor about bidding for it anonymously. To be able to pay for it, you will have to sell Tipperary.

Brendan
 
It's not clear from the post. I suspect OP is half owner of the property by virtue of a will leaving each of two offspring one half. So that is how he is now a one half owner. If he already owned one half, the figures would be different.

mf
 
Did you and your father hold ownership of the house as joint tenants or tenants in common?
 
I think your post is quite clear in the main,... although there could be some confusion over exactly how much you own, .. I'd agree with mf1 trhat you likely own 1/2 due to inheritatence.

I'd agree with Brendan too.. you should try to sell Waterford, then you'd have a great chance of being able to buy the Bray house.

No will could be a problem.. maybe some other people may have a claim on the estate.

Another implication may be that you are living in the house... so maybe you'd be liable for rent to the estate. On the other hand, maybe you'd be in a stronger position as regards a forced sale as you live there... it might be that a court would prefer that you stay there if at all possible, rather than forcing a sale which you don't want. But you need about 70K to 80K I'd imagine to be in a strong position.

I think you need professional advice, the sooner the better.. money well spent really as this is a very important issue for you.

I'd never heard of Brendans ideas that you could bid in secret for the house.. it may well work, but perhaps it wouldn't be legal as it could be considered false bidding or some such as you are also the seller.. (ok, you may not technically be the seller, but you do stand to benefit from the sale)
 
Thank you very much for the replies. Sorry if the OP was a bit unclear.

Long story short, my father passed away 3 months ago. No sign of a will anywhere, so my solicitor put the skids under me to get appointed Administrator / executor of the estate (now in the works) Given that my sister is very "eager", his advice was that if she became executor of the estate, a premature sale could be forced.

I've lived in the house since 1987, and own half as things currently stand. No other relatives have a claim apart from my sister.

Regards,

Tony.
 
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No other relatives have a claim.

Is this because there are no other relatives? If other blood relatives exist I'd imagine they would have some sort of a claim, but I really don't know. This might include your Aunts and Uncles on your fathers side, and possibly even your cousins, on your fathers side.
 
In cases of intestacy only spouses and children have a claim, not cousins, siblings, parents. That is where there are a spouse and/or children, otherwise the siblings, etc get the estate.
It sounds like op's mother is already dead?
 

Many thanks Brendan.

You know as an aside, I can see it sitting for a long time anyway ... there's a turnkey place a few doors away with every mod con you can imagine for 285k which I've been told is privately well dropped from that, so 265k. for this house needing modernizing is some stretch ... especially considering the former ( turnkey ) has been on the market since Christmas!

I think the basic story is, failing an ability on my part to buy the other half (quite likely) it's going to go for an indecent price. I guess that's getting me more than anything. Appreciate the replies, it's always interesting to get outside opinions as I'm too emotionally involved in the situation ... am well aware of it too.

I like the anonymous idea, it's food for thought.
 
In cases of intestacy only spouses and children have a claim, not cousins, siblings, parents. That is where there are a spouse and/or children, otherwise the siblings, etc get the estate.
It sounds like op's mother is already dead?

Sorry, should've clarified that. My mother is dead as well.
 

I can't say 100% Joe, best I can say right now is it's unlikely. Then again, when these things open up it's like the cross - eyed Javelin thrower analogy ... the result can go anywhere!
 
Did you and your father hold ownership of the house as joint tenants or tenants in common?

I basically lived at the house on the face of it 'Rent free' but paid bills in lieu. My father was 100% owner (mother passed away) I didn't keep vast records of my contributions (though I do have some). In the latter years I would have been more so a carer as he became more and more ill. I have done extensive work in the house / most of the furnishings etc. bought by myself but afaik that doesn't count for a hill of beans in the final analysis.

I should have mentioned also that my sister moved out in 1993.

In short, I have to be careful because my sister is highly legalistic and if this gets out of hand neither of us will own much ... and we all know who the only winners are in family disputes. Without going into a rigmarole, my sister feels hard done by because my father "bought" me a house (the one I'm paying for the past 8 years). You get the picture!
 
WicklowMan

I've lived in the house since 1987, and own half as things currently stand.

This is very confusing, so before we discuss any further, could you please clarify which of the following is correct.

A) Your father owned the house 100% and you and your sister are now entitled to 50% each.

or

B) Your father and you jointly owned the house.
You are now entitled to 50% of his share, so you will own 75% of the house.
 
"Without going into a rigmarole, my sister feels hard done by because my father "bought" me a house (the one I'm paying for the past 8 years). You get the picture!"

Why indeed ? This is all very confusing.
 
"Without going into a rigmarole, my sister feels hard done by because my father "bought" me a house (the one I'm paying for the past 8 years). You get the picture!"

Why indeed ? This is all very confusing.

The contradiction in the previous statement is intentional. My sister is jealous that my father (in her view) bought me a house (the fixer - upper in Tipperary) when in fact I bought it myself. He helped me out and would've helped her too if he'd seen much of her in 17 years, but he didn't "buy" me anything. Everything on her part seems predicated on this laughable misconception / bitterness.

WicklowMan



This is very confusing, so before we discuss any further, could you please clarify which of the following is correct.

A) Your father owned the house 100% and you and your sister are now entitled to 50% each.

As previously stated my father owned the house 100% and I am entitled to 50% as one of two next of kin (siblings)

Regards,

Tony.
 
Hi everyone,

Okay, been doing a lot of thinking on this since last posting. The most obvious / straightforward solution would be to sell my own place to finance buying out my sister's half of the house in Bray ...

Being realistic, I'm not going to get the required loan to buy her out (ballpark 130k.) so I sat down with a pen and paper and drew up a financial 'snag list' if you will.

It eventually dawned that there are two main problems here (apart from the fact that selling neither is a particularly good idea at the moment). 1/ I can't get credit and 2/ She wants to sell asap and I don't. As simplistic as it sounds, writing stuff down in a list helps the clarity no end.

I then began looking at where I stand. I'm willing NOT to live in the house medium - term, and would in the event of sale be looking to buy back in Bray anyway. As the proceeds would not cover this, I would end up as a joint owner with someone else (at a guess my credit rating is screwed for 5 years).

I haven't quite worked out the detail, but on the face of it how about getting someone to buy out her half? A few of my friends have advised against this, but believe me it couldn't be any more a disaster than my sister being joint owner!

Can anyone contextualize this for me? Are there many people willing to buy half a property? I wouldn't have a problem with someone buying in with me, the two of us renting it out for 15 - 20 years. Obviously though, it'd have to be an attractive proposition to another party.

Thanks in advance,

Tony.