Must couples seeking a divorce attend mediation if one insists on it?

[bkenn14]

I didn't disagree with the utility of others' pitfalls and related advice. My point is that one couple's outcome is specific to their particular circumstances and is probably not relevant to any other couple's situation.

Very well said
Which emphasizes that each partner is uniquely suited to present there prospective and advocate for themselves
the need to engage a solicitor who relates to them takes time to understand where they are coming from and let them know if they are going about it the correct or incorrect way,

Cruzer123 solicitor friend looks like the last person you would engage if you were trying to encourage mediation to resolve issues,
In most cases failing to engage in mediation will come against you in the end unless the other party try something foolish which gives them a get out of jail card,

 

[ClubMan]

overworked judges expect things like that to be sorted in mediation,

Not necessarily via mediation but often through negotiation by the spouses via their respective legal teams.

Mediation

Mediation helps you to resolve any disputes you may have in relation to Family Law issues. Learn more about what mediation is and where to find a mediator.

services.courts.ie

 

[bkenn14]

I had a look at the link provided
word for word,
Mediation can help you resolve any disputes you may have in relation to key issues such as

Arrangments for your children,

Maintance

The family home

Money assets and pensions,

The OP expects to be relegated to a Dad who spends a few hrs with his kids at the weekend or a trip to the movies now and then
His partner may be thinking the same way right now, but if he makes his case and wish known he will get a 2025 version of family Law which may be an eye opener for both parties,

Cruzer 123
If she files for Divorce now not so sure you should put a spanner in the works, you will possibly get a Better deal while your kids are younger if you make your case correctly,
Also If you push it out another two years that in possibly 50% of an extra two years pension entitlements you are down if you have a private pension unless she has a larger pension than you

Speaking of pensions get financial advice from a Financial Advisor not a solicitor on what is best arrangements from your point of view if you have a pension,

Word in the street is where it is left up to the Court/Judge to impose terms they don't take too kindly to whoever is dragging there feet with the family court system backed up at present,

judges are well aware where one party is driving up cost by not engaging in negotiating

 

[ClubMan]

I had a look at the link provided
word for word,
Mediation can help you resolve any disputes you may have in relation to key issues such as

Yes, but not every couple goes through mediation and many negotiate a settlement via their legal teams.

Edit: a quick Google suggests that it's very much the minority of separating or divorcing couples that go through mediation - possibly as low as 1% - with most negotiating settlements via their legal teams or depending on the court/judge to impose terms.

 

[bkenn14]

Clubman
Are solicitors no longer required by Law to discuss the possibility of mediation as a means of reaching a solution
or is this requirement only apply to seperation cases and not in divorce settlements,

The Google 1% Mediation in Divorce settlements is very low I wonder if the data is picking up the fact that the pension element of any settlement can not be agreed by mediation has to be agreed by both legal teams is this what is bringing down the % agree by Mediation when in the real world most of the settlement was already agreed trough Mediation,

I though the solicitor should provide you with a list of names and addresses of individuals and organisations that are qualified to help people reach mediated agreement,

A solicitor is legally required to file a document with the courts stating that they have advised there client appropriately if they choose to take the legal route, no or only required in separation cases,

That is not to say a Good solicitor will advice there client to be slow to agree Mediation as a means of shacking down a less informed partner who may finish up bearing most of the legal cost as a means of reaching a more favourable settlement for there client,

 

[bkenn14]

Decide what you want in the future as a parent. Do you want to have your children live with you and take a full 50% parenting responsibility? If so your needs will be housing for you and your spouse that is suitable for your children to live in. This may be the costliest part of the divorce so give it plenty of thought.

By costliest part do you mean extra legal cost to be incurred by Cruzer123 I don't think that is what you mean but i could be wrong
taking a position of wanting 50/50 parenting can also lead to a fairer split of assets and a lot fairer outcome/ agreement leaving both parents children on option to live with whichever parent the so wish to in the future,

No partner should think it is ok for the other partner to get locked into becoming a mum or dad for a few hrs each week, looking for 50/50 parenting can often lead to a partner who is reluctant to engage in Mediation to see the value of getting involved in mediation to reach a fairer settlement for all concerned,

 

[ClubMan]

Clubman
Are solicitors no longer required by Law to discuss the possibility of mediation as a means of reaching a solution
or is this requirement only apply to seperation cases and not in divorce settlements,

No idea. But, either way, the uptake of separation/divorce mediation seems to be very low.

A solicitor is legally required to file a document with the courts stating that they have advised there client appropriately if they choose to take the legal route, no or only required in separation cases,

I don't recall any such documents in my separation and divorce cases.

 

[bkenn14]

Cruzer123
In relation to Refusing to go for Mediation and you are been put off by a google search showing only 1% only go trough Mediation,
Google Mediation Act 2017 And Family Law,
This will show several midia reports but the one you are most interested in is from the law society 20/3/2018 click on it
this will bring you to the Mediation Act 2017 (law society)
Read the key changes all the way to the bottom

Then click read the full article in the march 2018 Gazett,

It makes very interesting reading on how the courts do not take to kindly to partners not engaging in Mediation
all the more so at present because cases are backed up and clogging the system

Having read the artical come back and let us know if you feel a little better about how the family courts work in recent times,
Clubman
Mediation should have been mentioned to you
What I undestand is when the Judicial Separation act was brought in first there was a requirement which I already posted about in Relation to Mediation it is my understanding this stayed in place until the 2017 act was passed,

If you google and read the Mediation Act 2017 You will see the requirements your self and what the outcome may be for not engaging in Mediation if one partner wants it (I am not making it up it is there for anyone to read if they are interested in doing so which I suspect Cruzer may be, Which is the reason I posted for Cruzer123 to read up on,

Hopefully it will bring down cost for the separating partners and help free up Valuable Court Time win win for all at a very stressful time for all concerned,
Hopefully Cruzer123 will come back and let the forum know if he found it helpful and reassuring,

Anyone who read his post could see he found it very stressful when his partner was refusing to engage in mediation

I suspect refusing mediation it used a lot to put pressure on and shake down a vulnerable partner hoping partner will cave in and agree to there terms rather than what is fair to both partners,

 

[ClubMan]

It makes very interesting reading on how the courts do not take to kindly to partners not engaging in Mediation

For my separation (2011) and eventual divorce (last year) mediation was never mentioned, we negotiated via our legal teams, and the judge/court didn't have any problem making the two agreements official because mediation wasn't used.

 

[bkenn14]

If you Google
Judicial
seperation and Family Law Reform Act 1989 (36 years ago) you will see for yourselves the requirement for solicitors to inform couples of Mediation who engage them,
As i said I am not making it up,
Act was updated again in 1995 the requirement was still included in the 20017 Act
I am sure there is a very good reason for still leaving it in there,
People who provide Mediation provide a different service,
Solicitors want the best possible outcome possible for there client,

 

[ClubMan]

I'm not sure that your seeming fixation on meditation is really that much help to the original poster. They're already aware of it but it doesn't sound like it's a runner in their case.

Ok, so she point blank refused the idea of couples therapy, she’s likely heading straight to a contested divorce with no offer of mediation. She said she won’t be dealing with me on anything and will be guided by her solicitor (despite saying last week whether or not she’s seen a solicitor is none of my business).

And, as already mentioned, it seems to be that only a tiny minority of separating/divorcing couples engage in meditation with most negotiating settlements via their legal teams or letting the court/judge rule on some or all matters. In an ideal world mediation would work for everybody. But we live in the real, and not an ideal, world.

Also, asserting that a court will penalise someone who doesn't engage in meditation seems like FUD, certainly from my own real world experience.

 

[bkenn14]

lso, asserting that a court will penalise someone who doesn't engage in meditation seems like certainly from my own real world experience.

You will see if you read the 2017 act again, it says if one side of the marriage want to go trough mediation and the other refused which is the position the OP finds themselves in,
Well the real world today Judges encourage Mediation after the first appearance of couples up before the family courts and take a dim view of any partner who refuse Mediation,

I think your Google search is trowing up a wrong result at 1% trough Mediation

Partly because Mediation cannot cover anything got to do with pension agreements between couples
Pension agreements are left up to both solicitors to agree or the judge,

The Mediation agreement/outworkings gets lumped in along with the pension agreement and the final agreement on paper get recorded as agreement reached between solicitors acting for both couples,

 

[DannyBoyD]

Judges encourage Mediation after the first appearance of couples up before the family courts

Indeed.

However, people are entitled to make their own choices and there is no legislation under which any party to divorce or separation proceedings can be penalised in regards to settlement issues, based on their choices of mediated or non-mediated agreements.

 

[bkenn14]

DannyBoyD
First off have you read the Article in the law Gazatte March 20018
Are you saying where a partner and there Solicitor weaponized family court time Trying to add unnessary cost on to a former partner will not face extra proportionate cost at the end of the case,

 

[DannyBoyD]

You are conflating two different things.

Legal costs are a separate item from custody, maintenance, property settlement etc.

 

[ClubMan]

You are conflating two different things.

Legal costs are a separafe item from custody, maintenance, property settlement etc.

Spot on:

https://www.lawsociety.ie/globalassets/documents/gazette/gazette-pdfs/gazette-2018/march-2018-gazette.pdf

In awarding costs in relation to proceedings where an application was made to direct mediation, a court may, where it considers it just, have regard to any unreasonable refusal or failureby a party to the proceedings to consider using mediation and any unreasonable refusalor failure by a party to attend mediation following an invitation to do so, pursuant to section 16(1).

And note that this specifically refers to a situation in which the court/judge directs mediation to take place - not where one spouse wants to use it but the other doesn't.

 

[mf1]

Must couples seeking a divorce attend mediation if one insists on it?​

In simple terms, no.

Costs Orders are not usually made by Judges in Family Law matters.
By the time a contested case gets in front of a Judge, the matter of mediation is long out of the equation.
I have an 80:10:10 rule in Family Law matters.

80% of cases will settle at some stage before, or after, proceedings issue. The parties may or may not have mutually agreed to go to mediation.

10% of cases will settle on the day of the hearing or shortly beforehand. They settle because the day of reckoning looms and lights go on in people's heads. Either sort it out or let a stranger sort it for you.

10% of cases will run before a Judge. These 10% of cases are generally bitter and divisive and, generally, reflect the most vicious and vindictive sides of one, or both, parties.

mf

​

 

[bkenn14]

MF
This discussion started out where I replied to a post in relation to a Google search seamed to suggest only 1% of seperation cases used Mediation and the rest are agreements between the partners solicitors was misleading,

I would say the vast majority of cases go to mediation, From the area I come from it is common for the judge to encourage or even require partners to attempt mediation before proceeding with a case hearing,

to inply almost all seperaition cases are setteled without Mediation or attempted Mediation is just plain wrong,

The word in the street around where I come from is Partners who act the maggot in court around Mediation almost always finish up feeling the got the short straw when the case gets setteled in front of the judge where one partner was pushing for mediation and the other was not interested,
A canny solicitor where one side refuses Mediation may let case go all the way up in front of a Judge with his homework well done,

So people should be very careful in putting it out there that Mediation is seldom used,

as it is a family court we cannot be sure weather this is correct or not but this is the feeling in most cases from people close to there cases,

 

[mf1]

'I would say the vast majority of cases go to mediation'

I don't agree with you- a lot of people do try mediation. See my post above.

'to inply almost all seperaition cases are setteled without Mediation or attempted Mediation is just plain wrong,'

That is not what I said.

I'm replying to this question:

Must couples seeking a divorce attend mediation if one insists on it?​

In simple terms, no.

mf

 

[ClubMan]

A canny solicitor where one side refuses Mediation may let case go all the way up in front of a Judge with his homework well done,

You seem to be insinuating (here and elsewhere) that a judge may somehow "penalise" an individual who doesn't engage in mediation. I very much doubt that this is the case especially when it comes to fair/appropriate settlement of matters such as division of assets, child custody/access rights, family home etc.