Move to Kildare or buy in Dublin ?

H

hermes

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Hi All

Great website. Hope that this is in the right forum !

Mrs H and I are expecting our first baby next spring. We currently live in a large apt in D6 but don't think this is suitable with a familiy on the way so we're looking at houses with the aim of buying Summer/Autumn 2008.

I work in Dub city centre and wife does too though she will most likely take a career break for a number of years after baby is born. I don't want to drive to work but want a place on a train/dart/luas line. I will have to drive to work very occasionally however (say 1-2 times per month).

Basically we've been thinking of two options and would like your thoughts, comments etc.

Option 1
Sell up our apt and buy a place in Dublin within 10-15mins walk of dart/luas station for c. 650K max probably Killiney, Raheny, Sutton etc.

Pros.
Stay in Dublin (we're both from Dublin).
Possibly better capital appreciation (??) on PPR.
No CGT issue in future (see option 2).
Hassle free (?)

Cons
Have to sell apt in great area with rent covering mortgage (at present).
Over 50K stamp duty to trade up (absolute disgrace IMO).
Would have large mortgage (but do-able, we have combined income of c140Kpa and equity + savings of c.250K)

Option 2
Keep our apartment and rent it out. Easy to rent and rent will cover mortgage. Buy house in Maynooth/Leixlip close to train station for 450K max.

Pros
Get to keep our great apartment which will pay for itself (we won't have to release equity because savings will cover SD and deposit).
Great value houses.
Much less stamp duty (20-30K).
Smaller mortgage than option 1.
Our families both live in west Dublin so Maynooth/Leixlip reasonably good for them to visit.

Cons
Distance from Dublin.
Capital appreciation possibly not as good as Dublin.
If I ever have to drive to work commute will be a major hassle.
I'll become a landlord, possible hassle here - though I don't think it will be too much of a problem (naive?)
CGT on sale of apartment in future years (most of the capital gain is likely to have taken place while it was our PPR) will hurt.
Integration in Kildare - is this likely to be an issue ? We don't think so.
We will likely want to come back into Dublin in 5-10 years

Any feedback is welcome.

Thanks

H & Mrs H
 
Hi,

If I was looking at Kildare, I would look at towns along the other train line (Newbridge, Kildare town). The train service from there, imo, is alot better and not as crowded. Plus the four track upgrade should bring some improvements.

All the other points you raise are valid. I think you are a bit naive to say that being a landlord won't be too much of a problem. You say that you have combined income of 140k, but your wife will take a career break after baby is born. How much will that cut the combined income down by?
 
Thanks for the reply income will drop by c.60K when maternity leave ends.

Don't know how much is involved in being a landlord !!

H
 
Have you considered buying along the Red Luas line better value so you'd be able to save on mortgage and stamp duty but all the benifits of the Dublin option plus if you have family in west Dublin I think there is a planned spur out to West Dublin under transport 21.

Regarding renting your appartment I'd say the era of big capital gains is over and certainly over the next 2-3 years prices will be at best static so personally given the hassle (Landlord etc) and tax implications i'd sell depending on your circumstances you'd could make better use of the capital by availing of the tax incentives for pensions. (get professional advice on this)

Anyway that's my tuppence worth.

Best of luck
BYG
 
Not sure if I can help but GCT will be percentage of what you gained. If property is worth 500 now and sell in 4 years and you lived in it for 6 years before that then you only pay GCT on 4/10 ths of the gain so 4/10ths of 20% of the total gain. Check out the hread I posted a while back in taxation section as I was wondering how it worked.


I would stay in Dublin myself, I live in Cabintely and love it, could not move me out of it for love nor money.... Especially if you have family near by....
Muffin
 
By the way I aso rent house I own to a tenant in reciept of social welfare and never had a problem in 3 years, she is great. not too much tax to pay each year either.

HTH
 
I think you should stay put, at least for the time being. I have lived in apartments with children and it's fine. It's not the Irish thing but I found an apartment easier when the children were very small, less rooms/stairs/escape routes. D6 is a great area, plenty of public parks and plesant outdoor areas. I live in kildare now and its great because we both work within walking distance of the house but I'd rather live in D6 if I worked in the city centre. It would be different if your apartment was not a child friendly place but you can hardly say that about D6. When you get to the third child think about commuting. (maybe )
 
Just want to thank everyone for taking the time to reply.

Our apt isn't very child friendly, we're on 3rd floor and there's no lift so Mrs H is particularly keen about getting a house !! We'd also like a garden !!

We're veering towards option 2 as it maximises our options and the apt will pay for itself and provide a basis for us to get back into the Dublin property market in the future if we want to. We think buying in Dublin over the next 12-18 months is unwise given the instability and pressure is building on Cowen to reduce stamp duty - another reason to hold off on incurring a potential 9% SD charge.
 
Muffinb said:
By the way I aso rent house I own to a tenant in reciept of social welfare and never had a problem in 3 years, she is great. not too much tax to pay each year either.

HTH
Click to expand...

This is slightly OT, but renting out to someone while you still live in the house and renting out to someone when you don't live in the house are two totally different things.
 
Hi there, just reading your post and this is just a few things that I thought about.

If your wife wants to give up work after she has her baby and so has to give up her 60k p.a., would that not be a huge strain on you financially if you have bought the house for 650k and paid the stamp duty?

Also, if you went for the second option it can only make life easier with a new baby being close to both of your families. Just something else to consider.
 
hi
I would rent out Apt you should get good rent for it.You could buy in leixlip with the sluggish market you could get a 4 bed semi d with a garage for about €480 maybe less.Leixlip has a train station and a very large car park.I do think house prices will go up again in about 6 years so hold on to your property.Dont worry about being a landlord just get an agency to find a prof tennant for you.i would personaly keep your apt for investment reasons or for your kids.
 
Perhaps there's a need to re-focus away from the property? Here's how I see your situation.

Your joint earnings have enabled you to settle and create a wonderful home in a location which is high in amenity of every kind, is accessible to extended family and involves minimal commute.

Enter His Highness The Baby in Spring and you change from being a couple to being a family. Mrs. H will be at home all day with the baby. You won't be able to think about what you're doing in work for at least 2 months. You'll just want to get home..........to the baby.

Your present location is ideal for that. They're not mobile for awhile !

Moving to Raheny or Kildare will entail more time commuting to the detriment of the time and energy you'll have for your wife and child. The extended family will be too far away to easily participate and enjoy the baby whilst helping out with baby-sitting. Having the occasional (and essential!) evening out together will be difficult to organise. You will be setting up home - anew - and will have to work hard to turn strangers into friends and neighbours. OK you will have a garden.......but will you have the time it needs to make, tend and use it if you are commuting into Dublin every day? The point about the time and energy involved also applies to your idea of becoming a landlord to your rented-out D6 apartment. You won't have time. You're about to be a father.........one of the most absorbing life-changing things that can happen.

Stay put in your lovely home and enjoy family life!
 
ok just my tuppence worth but I disagree with the last poster, I can understand you wanting to move from your apartment, as you say it is on the 3rd floor with no lift, now fair enough the baby will not be mobile but how the hell are you (or your missus) supposed to lug a buggy and all the assorted baby gear up and down 3 flights of stairs??

I think Leixlip could be a good option for you, as you say your family are in West Dublin which is close enough to Leixlip to be able to see them, I am probably biased though because I have just moved to Leixlip and my family are all in West Dublin, I still see them all the time!!

Also commute wise, you say you will only be driving into the city once or twice a month, again I am in the same position and I find the trains great, yeah sure they are a little full but the commute into the city centre from Leixlip takes me the same time as it used to from Tallaght, when I have to drive I just get up a bit earlier and prepare myself for the brutal traffic, I wouldnt want to be stuck in it every day but I can cope with it a couple of times a month.
 
I have to agree with TML

My wife an I are living in an own door duplex apartment in west dublin that has 2 flights of stairs to our living room (i.e. above to other apartments).

We had our DD 7 months ago and if we could change one thing it would be to have moved out before she came along. There are long periods on most days where they only thing you can do with a crying baby is bring them for a walk. Try carrying a buggy down the stairs, every day it is not easy. Add to that that your wife will be knackered and no one is there to help carry the baby - so can you leave them in the apartment and come back up for a second trip?

We are currently moving to Kildare - Maynooth - lovely 4 bed semi.

I would suggest option 3 - sell your apartment and look to buy somewhere further out, near the folks - i.e. leixlip like you mention, that will be the family home for the foreseeable future. You currently have a good joint income, which will temporarily become 1 income - so moving out to kildare and seeling up will provide a great home with a manageable mortgage - quality of life, why worry about the hassle of an investment property.

Paddy
 
Everybody

Thanks again for all your replies.

I find myself agreeing with bits of most of your replies. A couple of thoughts:

1.) Selling our apt - could do this alright and have a very manageable mortgage (bout 25% of my sole earnings) in Leixlip but would have closed off the option of having a very good investment property in Dub which would pay for itself. Given that you get 1 year grace on CGT calcs, we're thinking of experimenting for the first year by renting the apartment and seeing how we cope with being landlords and with the higher mortgage on our PPR. If things are too tight financially or too much hassle with the apt, we should be able to sell it within the year avoiding the CGT and dump the equity off our PPR mortgage or into an investment.

2.) Staying in the apt - Lugging pram up n down stairs - not looking forward to this. We'll probably stay in our apt for 3-4 months after baby is born and see how we go. We're planning on locking the pram in the common area of our apt block under the stairs on the ground floor - people park bikes there occasionally. There will be a risk of theft/damage but hopefully it will be low because the block is made up mostly of elderly owner occupiers. This will mean Mrs H will have to carry baby and baby seat up and down 3 flights - still far from ideal.

We both love where we live at the moment in terms of lifestyle etc but we don't think our social life will be up to much after baby arrives !

Mr and Mrs H
 
definitely think about moving before the baby arrives or not at all for at least six months after and seeing as you have no lift the later doesn't sound realistic. (By the way google and research slings and baby carriers so your wife can leave the house without a buggy when you're not there to lug it up and down for her.) As a city centre apartment living mother myself I have to say I appreciate living in the city even more since we had our baby. I can leave the house and reach civilisation in minutes, go to the shops, cafes etc (you mean to go to gallerys and the like but even then I go to the gallery shop!) and when we get a night off we can go to our favourite restaurants, get a few hours of our personal life back and a taxi home. My friend lives in the suburbs/country and she doesn't feel the roads are safe to walk as there are no footpaths so she has to load up the car or wander around the estate to get out of the house. They have to spend €40 on a taxi if they want to go out for a drink and there is feck all locally. They have the pleasure of a garden alright but they've had no time to do anything with it, whereas I can walk to the phoenix park in 15mins.
Why not compromise and go for a smaller house or a cheaper location in the city? I would rather be a little cramped than isolated.
 
My husband and I live in Meath and commute to Dublin. We have 3 children. When my first child was born I had a c-section so could not drive for 6 weeks. I am from Dublin and had only lived in Meath for a year before baby arrived in February. The weather was not good so I could not bring the baby out and dh was not home until approx 8pm each evening. I found it very difficult going from a work environment to being at home alone all day with a baby and no-one to talk to all day.

For your wifes sake if you have friends etc in Dublin you might be better staying in Dublin. Also you say your wife will take a career break after your baby is born but she may not find it easy being at home all the time. I have 3 children at this stage and work 50%. I love my children dearly and have breastfed each of them for at least 2 years but I could not have taken a career break. It is great to be out in the working environment and using my brain (in a work way). Most of my friends are in the same position and still working. I thought I would be on a career break by now.

If you go and live in Kildare will your wife be still able to work if she wants to? You definitely need to take this into consideration before you move.

HTH
 
I'm a Maynooth man and if you're seriously looking at North Kildare as an option, I would recommend this town over the others (Leixlip/Celbridge).

The market is pretty stagnant in all these towns at the moment, but Maynooth operates at a slightly higher premium (and so maybe more likely to hold its value in a market downturn). There's a reason for that. It's a nicer place to live and there are more facilities. The train ride is an extra 10 minutes max and the driving commute to Dublin is negligible. You can be in the city in 30 minutes on a Saturday. It does have traffic problems around the the village but these are easily overcome when you know the various back roads etc.

There are better shopping facilities, restaurants etc. It's a place your friends or family could visit and spend the day walking around the village/college. The main street of Leixlip just doesn't offer this. I believe integration would be much easier than Leixlip/Newbridge.

Train commute is 50 minutes. The way in is grand, you'll get a seat. The way home is a different matter at 5. Saying that, if you leave work at 5, you're home by 6. Personally, I would hate to use the red line on a daily basis. If you need to drive, leave Maynooth by 7 and you will be in town at a comfortable time (8.30 depending on where you're going)

What's the market like in your current location? Are you sure it would sell as fast as you would need to move to somewhere like Killiney?

You're on the right track with the idea of being a landlord for 1 year and trying it out before CGT starts coming into play.

P.S. I'm not an estate agent in Maynooth
 

Train commute from Heuston to Hazelhatch in Celbridge is only 13 mins in the evening. The train station will become a dart station under transport21 with 4 lines serving the city centre. This work is already underway. So it really depends on where in the cty centre you work, but I get the 6:40 train from Heuston every evening and am sitting down at home in Celbridge by 7.
 
I get the 6:40 train from Heuston every evening and am sitting down at home in Celbridge by 7.
Click to expand...

Really? wow thats really impressive. Definite food for thought for the op
 
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