Key Post Switch or re-fix my mortgage? Breakage fee calculator and savings estimates for your case (Ireland)

[albh4566]

- Current lender: BOI
- Outstanding mortgage balance: 450000
- Approximate value of your property: 750000k
- 28 years 6 months left
- Current product end 01/04/51
- Began 31-3-20
- Your current mortgage interest rate: 3.0%
- Your current monthly repayment: 1930
- Your property's BER: c?
- Are you due to get extra cashback from your current lender in the future: 3000 in 2.5 years

 

[Paul F]

@albh4566
When did you start your fixed rate (month and year)? I'm guessing March 2020?

How many years did you fix for? Was it for 5 years?

 

[Doggerel]

Current lender: PTSB
Outstanding mortgage balance (how much you still owe): €398,000
Approximate current value of your property: €750,000
The date you started your fixed-rate mortgage (month and year): September 2021
How many years you fixed for: 3 years
Your current mortgage interest rate: 2.5%
Your current monthly repayment (excluding any overpayments): €1,894
Your property's BER (Building Energy Rating) – D2
Are you due to get extra cashback from your current lender in the future: No

PTSB confirmed that there is a 0 break fee. I switched to them from BOI last year (to avail of 2% cashback from both lenders). With interest rates in flux, I'm exploring fixing for 5 or 7 years (I have two years of fixed term left on my current mortgage).

My broker indicated that by the time I jump through the switcher hurdles with a new lender, interest rates will have gone up (I was looking at the 2.2% fixed rate with AIB + 2k cashback). I think that's probably right (PTSB were very, very slow last year so I do not expect AIB will be much better). He also says that the fixed rate applicable will be at time of drawdown - not per the offer letter.

So, now I'm considering the 3% fixed rate with PTSB (that being their existing customer rate) for 5 years or 7 years. It will mean an increase in the monthly payment to €1,995 (so €100 increase monthly) but obviously, it will give some certainty.

Just wondering if anyone is in a similar situation and/or has any thoughts? I'd also be interested in hearing about anyone going through a switch at the moment and how long it is taking.

Thank you.

 

[Paul F]

@Doggerel Are you getting the 2% monthly cashback from PTSB (about €38/month)?

 

[albh4566]

@albh4566
When did you start your fixed rate (month and year)? I'm guessing March 2020?

How many years did you fix for? Was it for 5 years?

Hi, yes correct to both

 

[Paul F]

- Outstanding mortgage balance: 450000

- Are you due to get extra cashback from your current lender in the future: 3000 in 2.5 years

Normally the future cashback is 1% of the original mortgage balance. Are you sure the €3,000 figure is correct?

And one or more of the following three pieces of info is wrong:

- Outstanding mortgage balance: 450000
- 28 years 6 months left
- Your current monthly repayment: 1930

Can you check everything again?

 

[Doggerel]

@Doggerel Are you getting the 2% monthly cashback from PTSB (about €38/month)?

Hi Paul, yes, I'm getting the 2% on the monthly repayments which, as you mention, works out at about €38.

 

[Colm G]

• Current lender: BOI
• Outstanding mortgage balance (how much you still owe) €170k
• Approximate value of your property €390k
• The date you started your fixed-rate mortgage (month and year): June 2019
• How many years you fixed for: 5
• Your current mortgage interest rate: 3.2%
• Your current monthly repayment (excluding any overpayments): €833
• Your property's BER (Building Energy Rating) – estimated if necessary: C2
• Are you due to get extra cashback from your current lender in the future: No

 

[Paul F]

• Current lender. Avant
• Outstanding mortgage balance (how much you still owe) c 780,000
• Approximate current value of your property 975,000
• The date you started your fixed-rate mortgage (month and year) February 2022
• How many years you fixed for Three
• Your current mortgage interest rate 2.15%
• Your current monthly repayment (excluding any overpayments) 2,942
• Your property's BER (Building Energy Rating) – check it here or estimate it if necessary C1 (estimated)
• Are you due to get extra cashback from your current lender in the future, e.g., "1% after 5 years", or "2% cashback monthly"? If so, how much (monetary amount) and when? No

@Paul5555 I am assuming that your outstanding mortgage balance is actually around €767,600. Let me know if that is wrong.

Your break fee should be zero at the moment – but it is volatile, so confirm it with Avant Money. If it is higher than zero, please post it here when you receive it, including the date of the letter.

• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 4-year fixed rate (2.65% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €6,940 over the next 4 years
  • The monthly repayment would be €3,139
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 5-year fixed rate (2.85% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €12,900 over the next 4 years
  • The monthly repayment would be €3,220
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 7-year fixed rate (3.15% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €21,900 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 7 years on a fixed rate
  • The monthly repayment would be €3,344
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 10-year fixed rate (3.6% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €35,440 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 10 years on a fixed rate
  • The monthly repayment would be €3,534
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's "One Mortgage" (a 3.75% fixed rate with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €39,980 over the next 4 years – and the interest rate will remain fixed for the remainder of your mortgage term (approximately 29 years)
  • The monthly repayment would be €3,599

These estimates use for comparison the scenario of switching to a 5-year 2.85% fixed rate with Avant Money when the current fixed rate ends. And that's assuming that Avant Money are even offering a 5-year 2.85% fixed rate in February 2025 – it could be higher (or lower). The estimates also account for any fees (solicitors' fees, valuation fee) that you have to pay and any cashback offered by the above lenders.

All of Avant's rates allow you to avoid any potential break fee if you move home in the future (as long as you take out a new mortgage with them, and subject to certain conditions).

Even though it is usually quick to re-fix with your current lender, it is still possible for rates to rise while you are in the middle of the process, which could potentially leave you worse off than if you had done nothing. Ask Avant Money if they will guarantee today's rates for you if you start the process of re-fixing with them.

I have not bothered showing savings estimates for switching to other lenders, but let me know if you want them.

You mentioned in the other thread that you will be looking for a topup in about two years. Note the following:

• I think that a topup is treated as a separate mortgage, and so you would not have to break to get a topup – but confirm this with Avant
• In this post, a mortgage broker says that Avant won't give topups of more than €50k. That was back in January. Their limits could be different now and could change (up or down) between now and two years' time.
• If a topup would take your loan-to-value (LTV) ratio over 80%, you are very unlikely to get the topup – from any lender
• If a topup would take your mortgage balance over 3.5 times your joint income, you are very unlikely to get the topup – from any lender

 

[Paul F]

Outstanding mortgage balance (how much you still owe) €170k

@Colm G You gave the same balance when you first posted here back in April. What is your current balance?

Are you due to get extra cashback from your current lender in the future: No

Can you confirm that this is correct, i.e., that you are not due to get 1% of the original balance in cashback from BOI in the future?

 

[Colm G]

@Colm G You gave the same balance when you first posted here back in April. What is your current balance?


Can you confirm that this is correct, i.e., that you are not due to get 1% of the original balance in cashback from BOI in the future?

Hi Paul,

Balance is probably closer to 165k now. Definitely not due anything from BOI.

Was due to sign papers for Finance Ireland at the end of the week so looking for an alternative now, unfortunately.
Thanks

 

[Paul F]

Current lender: PTSB
Outstanding mortgage balance (how much you still owe): €398,000
Approximate current value of your property: €750,000
The date you started your fixed-rate mortgage (month and year): September 2021
How many years you fixed for: 3 years
Your current mortgage interest rate: 2.5%
Your current monthly repayment (excluding any overpayments): €1,894
Your property's BER (Building Energy Rating) – D2
Are you due to get extra cashback from your current lender in the future: No

@Doggerel

• Switching immediately to AIB's 4-year fixed rate (2.2% with €2,000 cashback) will save you about €7,280 over the next 4 years
  
  
• Switching immediately to Haven's 7-year fixed rate (2.65% with €5,000 cashback) will save you about €3,460 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 7 years on a fixed rate
  • Warning: it takes a long time to complete a switch to Haven, in the experience of some users of this site
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 4-year fixed rate (2.45% with no cashback) will save you about €1,460 over the next 4 years
  
  
• Switching immediately to Haven's 10-year fixed rate (2.85% with €5,000 cashback) will save you about €420 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 10 years on a fixed rate
  • Warning: it takes a long time to complete a switch to Haven, in the experience of some users of this site
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 5-year fixed rate (2.65% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €1,580 over the next 4 years
  
  
• Switching immediately to Permanent TSB's 5-year fixed rate (3.0% with 2% monthly cashback) will leave you worse off by about €3,900 over the next 4 years. But it is very simple and quick to do (no bank statements, salary cert or solicitor, etc., needed).
  
  
• Switching immediately to Permanent TSB's 7-year fixed rate (3.0% with 2% monthly cashback) will leave you worse off by about €3,900 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 7 years on a fixed rate. And it is very simple and quick to do (no bank statements, salary cert or solicitor, etc., needed).
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 7-year fixed rate (2.95% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €6,140 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 7 years on a fixed rate
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 10-year fixed rate (3.4% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €13,040 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 10 years on a fixed rate
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's "One Mortgage" (a 3.5% fixed rate with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €14,560 over the next 4 years – and the interest rate will remain fixed for the remainder of your mortgage term (approximately 23 years)
  
  
• Switching immediately to Finance Ireland's 10-year fixed rate (4.45% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €29,240 over the next 4 years
  • This product has a benefit in relation to moving home in the future that is explained below
  
  
• Switching immediately to Finance Ireland's 15-year fixed rate (4.48% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €29,720 over the next 4 years
  • This product has a benefit in relation to moving home in the future that is explained below
  
  
• Switching immediately to Finance Ireland's 20-year fixed rate (4.58% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €31,260 over the next 4 years
  • This product has a benefit in relation to moving home in the future that is explained below

The above Avant rates include their rate increases of 15 August 2022. While Avant's rates are not the lowest at present, it is possible that they will be amongst the lowest in the near future when other lenders increase their rates. (That is not a major consideration if you decide to re-fix with Permanent TSB, since re-fixing with your current lender is usually quick to do.)

These savings estimates use for comparison the scenario of switching to a 3% rate with Permanent TSB when the current fixed rate ends. And that's assuming that Permanent TSB are even offering a 3% rate in September 2024 – it could be higher (or lower). You would continue to get the Permanent TSB monthly cashback in such a scenario. The estimates also account for any fees (solicitors' fees, valuation fee) that you have to pay and any cashback offered by the above lenders.

You should call Permanent TSB and tell them that you have started the process of switching to another lender. Ask them what interest rates they will offer you to break and re-fix with them. Please post a summary of their response here.

All of Avant's rates, and Finance Ireland's 10-year and longer fixed rates, allow you to avoid any potential break fee if you move home in the future (as long as you take out a new mortgage with them, and subject to certain conditions). And in the case of Finance Ireland you can "take your mortgage with you" – meaning that you get to keep the same interest rate when you move (provided that at least 3 years have passed since you started the Finance Ireland fixed rate and subject to certain other conditions).

Bear in mind that interest rates are very likely to rise between now and the time that you complete any switch to another lender, so if you are thinking of switching you should apply simultaneously to two or more lenders for approval in principle (AIP).

Even though it is usually quick to re-fix with your current lender, it is still possible for rates to rise while you are in the middle of the process, which could potentially leave you worse off than if you had done nothing. Ask Permanent TSB if they will guarantee today's rates for you if you start the process of re-fixing with them.

Just wondering if anyone is in a similar situation and/or has any thoughts? I'd also be interested in hearing about anyone going through a switch at the moment and how long it is taking.

Based on some posts here:

• Haven are extremely slow
• AIB seem to take about three to four months
• Avant are apparently faster than they used to be and now take about two to three months
• Re-fixing with Permanent TSB should be very fast (because they are your current lender)

If you are thinking of switching to another lender, make sure that you first read this list of reasons why you might not be able to switch.

 

[albh4566]

Normally the future cashback is 1% of the original mortgage balance. Are you sure the €3,000 figure is correct?

And one or more of the following three pieces of info is wrong:


Can you check everything again?

apologies - 1% cashback

i double checked balance it is 444,738.80 as of today

Thank you

 

[Paul F]

- Current lender: BOI
- Outstanding mortgage balance: [About €444,700]
- Approximate value of your property: 750000k
- [The date you started your fixed-rate mortgage (month and year): 31 March 2020]
- [How many years you fixed for: 5]
- 28 years 6 months left
- Current product end 01/04/51
- Began 31-3-20
- Your current mortgage interest rate: 3.0%
- Your current monthly repayment: 1930
- Your property's BER: c?
- Are you due to get extra cashback from your current lender in the future: [€4,670] in 2.5 years

@albh4566 Your break fee should be zero at the moment – but it is volatile because wholesale interest rates are volatile, so confirm it with Bank of Ireland. If it is higher than zero, please post it here when you receive it, including the date of the letter.

• Switching immediately to Permanent TSB's 5-year fixed rate (2.55% with €8,892 initial cashback and 2% monthly cashback) will save you about €12,000 over the next 4 years
  • Note that Permanent TSB discriminate between new and existing customers, i.e., their best rates are not available to existing customers
  • For example, if you were an existing Permanent TSB customer right now, the best rate you would be able to switch to today is 3.0%
  • So if you switch to them now, you will not be eligible to switch to one of their low rates in the future and you will end up on a higher interest rate. When that happens, you may want to switch again to another lender, which will incur costs (and it might be impossible to switch if your financial situation has deteriorated).
  
  
• Switching immediately to AIB's 4-year fixed rate (2.2% with €2,000 cashback) will save you about €9,680 over the next 4 years
  
  
• Switching immediately to Haven's 7-year fixed rate (2.65% with €5,000 cashback) will save you about €4,920 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 7 years on a fixed rate
  • Warning: it takes a long time to complete a switch to Haven, in the experience of some users of this site
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 4-year fixed rate (2.45% with no cashback) will save you about €3,340 over the next 4 years
  
  
• Switching immediately to Haven's 10-year fixed rate (2.85% with €5,000 cashback) will save you about €1,460 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 10 years on a fixed rate
  • Warning: it takes a long time to complete a switch to Haven, in the experience of some users of this site
  
  
• Re-fixing immediately on Bank of Ireland's 5-year fixed rate (3.0% and you would get the 1% (€4,670) cashback) will not save you or cost you anything over the next 4 years, but it will "reset the clock" on the fixed-rate period. And it is very simple and quick to do (no bank statements, salary cert or solicitor, etc., needed).
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 5-year fixed rate (2.65% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €120 over the next 4 years
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 7-year fixed rate (2.95% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €5,300 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 7 years on a fixed rate
  
  
• Switching immediately to Bank of Ireland's 10-year fixed rate (3.3% and you would get the 1% (€4,670) cashback) will leave you worse off by about €5,380 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 10 years on a fixed rate. And it is very simple and quick to do (no bank statements, salary cert or solicitor, etc., needed).
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 10-year fixed rate (3.4% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €13,120 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 10 years on a fixed rate
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's "One Mortgage" (a 3.5% fixed rate with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €14,860 over the next 4 years – and the interest rate will remain fixed for the remainder of your mortgage term (approximately 29 years)
  
  
• Switching immediately to Finance Ireland's 10-year fixed rate (4.45% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €31,500 over the next 4 years
  • This product has a benefit in relation to moving home in the future that is explained below
  
  
• Switching immediately to Finance Ireland's 15-year fixed rate (4.48% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €32,020 over the next 4 years
  • This product has a benefit in relation to moving home in the future that is explained below
  
  
• Switching immediately to Finance Ireland's 20-year fixed rate (4.58% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €33,780 over the next 4 years
  • This product has a benefit in relation to moving home in the future that is explained below
  
  
• Switching immediately to Finance Ireland's 25-year fixed rate (4.73% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €36,440 over the next 4 years
  • This product has a benefit in relation to moving home in the future that is explained below

The above Avant rates include their rate increases of 15 August 2022. While Avant's rates are not the lowest at present, it is possible that they will be amongst the lowest in the near future when other lenders increase their rates. (That is not a major consideration if you decide to re-fix with Bank of Ireland, since re-fixing with your current lender is usually quick to do.)

These savings estimates use for comparison the scenario of switching to a 3% rate with Bank of Ireland when the current fixed rate ends. And that's assuming that Bank of Ireland are even offering a 3% rate in April 2025 – it could be higher (or lower). You would get the Bank of Ireland €4,670 future cashback in such a scenario, and the savings estimates account for this. The estimates also account for any fees (solicitors' fees, valuation fee) that you have to pay and any cashback offered by the above lenders.

All of Avant's rates, and Finance Ireland's 10-year and longer fixed rates, allow you to avoid any potential break fee if you move home in the future (as long as you take out a new mortgage with them, and subject to certain conditions). And in the case of Finance Ireland you can "take your mortgage with you" – meaning that you get to keep the same interest rate when you move (provided that at least 3 years have passed since you started the Finance Ireland fixed rate and subject to certain other conditions).

The estimates also assume that your loan-to-value ratio (LTV) really is below 60% so that you are eligible for the Avant rates listed above. (This consideration does not apply to the rates listed for the other lenders.) Your LTV estimate is 444.7k/750.0k = 59.3%. If you get a valuation of less than €742k, you will need to make a few more monthly mortgage payments and/or a lump sum overpayment to get the LTV below 60%. But that is not a reason to delay the switch – i.e., you can start the switch immediately.

Bear in mind that interest rates are very likely to rise between now and the time that you complete any switch to another lender, so if you are thinking of switching you should apply simultaneously to two or more lenders for approval in principle (AIP).

Even though it is usually quick to re-fix with your current lender, it is still possible for rates to rise while you are in the middle of the process, which could potentially leave you worse off than if you had done nothing. Ask Bank of Ireland if they will guarantee today's rates for you if you start the process of re-fixing with them.

 

[albh4566]

@albh4566 Your break fee should be zero at the moment – but it is volatile because wholesale interest rates are volatile, so confirm it with Bank of Ireland. If it is higher than zero, please post it here when you receive it, including the date of the letter.

• Switching immediately to Permanent TSB's 5-year fixed rate (2.55% with €8,892 initial cashback and 2% monthly cashback) will save you about €12,000 over the next 4 years
  • Note that Permanent TSB discriminate between new and existing customers, i.e., their best rates are not available to existing customers
  • For example, if you were an existing Permanent TSB customer right now, the best rate you would be able to switch to today is 3.0%
  • So if you switch to them now, you will not be eligible to switch to one of their low rates in the future and you will end up on a higher interest rate. When that happens, you may want to switch again to another lender, which will incur costs (and it might be impossible to switch if your financial situation has deteriorated).
  
  
• Switching immediately to AIB's 4-year fixed rate (2.2% with €2,000 cashback) will save you about €9,680 over the next 4 years
  
  
• Switching immediately to Haven's 7-year fixed rate (2.65% with €5,000 cashback) will save you about €4,920 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 7 years on a fixed rate
  • Warning: it takes a long time to complete a switch to Haven, in the experience of some users of this site
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 4-year fixed rate (2.45% with no cashback) will save you about €3,340 over the next 4 years
  
  
• Switching immediately to Haven's 10-year fixed rate (2.85% with €5,000 cashback) will save you about €1,460 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 10 years on a fixed rate
  • Warning: it takes a long time to complete a switch to Haven, in the experience of some users of this site
  
  
• Re-fixing immediately on Bank of Ireland's 5-year fixed rate (3.0% and you would get the 1% (€4,670) cashback) will not save you or cost you anything over the next 4 years, but it will "reset the clock" on the fixed-rate period. And it is very simple and quick to do (no bank statements, salary cert or solicitor, etc., needed).
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 5-year fixed rate (2.65% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €120 over the next 4 years
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 7-year fixed rate (2.95% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €5,300 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 7 years on a fixed rate
  
  
• Switching immediately to Bank of Ireland's 10-year fixed rate (3.3% and you would get the 1% (€4,670) cashback) will leave you worse off by about €5,380 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 10 years on a fixed rate. And it is very simple and quick to do (no bank statements, salary cert or solicitor, etc., needed).
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 10-year fixed rate (3.4% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €13,120 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 10 years on a fixed rate
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's "One Mortgage" (a 3.5% fixed rate with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €14,860 over the next 4 years – and the interest rate will remain fixed for the remainder of your mortgage term (approximately 29 years)
  
  
• Switching immediately to Finance Ireland's 10-year fixed rate (4.45% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €31,500 over the next 4 years
  • This product has a benefit in relation to moving home in the future that is explained below
  
  
• Switching immediately to Finance Ireland's 15-year fixed rate (4.48% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €32,020 over the next 4 years
  • This product has a benefit in relation to moving home in the future that is explained below
  
  
• Switching immediately to Finance Ireland's 20-year fixed rate (4.58% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €33,780 over the next 4 years
  • This product has a benefit in relation to moving home in the future that is explained below
  
  
• Switching immediately to Finance Ireland's 25-year fixed rate (4.73% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €36,440 over the next 4 years
  • This product has a benefit in relation to moving home in the future that is explained below

The above Avant rates include their rate increases of 15 August 2022. While Avant's rates are not the lowest at present, it is possible that they will be amongst the lowest in the near future when other lenders increase their rates. (That is not a major consideration if you decide to re-fix with Bank of Ireland, since re-fixing with your current lender is usually quick to do.)

These savings estimates use for comparison the scenario of switching to a 3% rate with Bank of Ireland when the current fixed rate ends. And that's assuming that Bank of Ireland are even offering a 3% rate in April 2025 – it could be higher (or lower). You would get the Bank of Ireland €4,670 future cashback in such a scenario, and the savings estimates account for this. The estimates also account for any fees (solicitors' fees, valuation fee) that you have to pay and any cashback offered by the above lenders.

All of Avant's rates, and Finance Ireland's 10-year and longer fixed rates, allow you to avoid any potential break fee if you move home in the future (as long as you take out a new mortgage with them, and subject to certain conditions). And in the case of Finance Ireland you can "take your mortgage with you" – meaning that you get to keep the same interest rate when you move (provided that at least 3 years have passed since you started the Finance Ireland fixed rate and subject to certain other conditions).

The estimates also assume that your loan-to-value ratio (LTV) really is below 60% so that you are eligible for the Avant rates listed above. (This consideration does not apply to the rates listed for the other lenders.) Your LTV estimate is 444.7k/750.0k = 59.3%. If you get a valuation of less than €742k, you will need to make a few more monthly mortgage payments and/or a lump sum overpayment to get the LTV below 60%. But that is not a reason to delay the switch – i.e., you can start the switch immediately.

Bear in mind that interest rates are very likely to rise between now and the time that you complete any switch to another lender, so if you are thinking of switching you should apply simultaneously to two or more lenders for approval in principle (AIP).

Even though it is usually quick to re-fix with your current lender, it is still possible for rates to rise while you are in the middle of the process, which could potentially leave you worse off than if you had done nothing. Ask Bank of Ireland if they will guarantee today's rates for you if you start the process of re-fixing with them.

Thanks for that, very helpful.


I'm thinking of longer term security - the BOI / 10 year is an easy switch for me. but as you say it will cost me more.
I know we don't have crystal balls - but what is the likelihood for interest rate with main banks in a the coming years ?
i know some mortgage rates were raised this week
are we headed for 4-5 (possibly more) being normal for fixed rates? are the days of 2-3 coming to an end?

is it too late to think about trying to go for one of those 2.x rates with avant?

sorry if that's a silly question

 

[Darran M]

• Current lender. Ulster bank
• Outstanding mortgage balance (how much you still owe) 77000
• Approximate current value of your property 120000
• The date you started your fixed-rate mortgage (month and year) December 2020
• How many years you fixed for. Five
• Your current mortgage interest rate 2.6%
• Your current monthly repayment (excluding any overpayments) 325
• Your property's BER (Building Energy Rating) – check it here or estimate it if necessary D3 (estimated
• Are you due to get extra cashback from your current lender in the future, e.g., "1% after 5 years", or "2% cashback monthly"? If so, how much (monetary amount) and when? No

Paid 90k for house in 2020, 90% morgage and have done a good bit of work to it ie new kitchen, tiled floors, painted ect. Just wondering what my options are as the house has increased in value and my LTV is about 60~%
Thanks

 

[Doggerel]

@Doggerel

• Switching immediately to AIB's 4-year fixed rate (2.2% with €2,000 cashback) will save you about €7,280 over the next 4 years
  
  
• Switching immediately to Haven's 7-year fixed rate (2.65% with €5,000 cashback) will save you about €3,460 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 7 years on a fixed rate
  • Warning: it takes a long time to complete a switch to Haven, in the experience of some users of this site
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 4-year fixed rate (2.45% with no cashback) will save you about €1,460 over the next 4 years
  
  
• Switching immediately to Haven's 10-year fixed rate (2.85% with €5,000 cashback) will save you about €420 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 10 years on a fixed rate
  • Warning: it takes a long time to complete a switch to Haven, in the experience of some users of this site
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 5-year fixed rate (2.65% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €1,580 over the next 4 years
  
  
• Switching immediately to Permanent TSB's 5-year fixed rate (3.0% with 2% monthly cashback) will leave you worse off by about €3,900 over the next 4 years. But it is very simple and quick to do (no bank statements, salary cert or solicitor, etc., needed).
  
  
• Switching immediately to Permanent TSB's 7-year fixed rate (3.0% with 2% monthly cashback) will leave you worse off by about €3,900 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 7 years on a fixed rate. And it is very simple and quick to do (no bank statements, salary cert or solicitor, etc., needed).
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 7-year fixed rate (2.95% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €6,140 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 7 years on a fixed rate
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's 10-year fixed rate (3.4% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €13,040 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 10 years on a fixed rate
  
  
• Switching immediately to Avant Money's "One Mortgage" (a 3.5% fixed rate with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €14,560 over the next 4 years – and the interest rate will remain fixed for the remainder of your mortgage term (approximately 23 years)
  
  
• Switching immediately to Finance Ireland's 10-year fixed rate (4.45% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €29,240 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 10 years on a fixed rate
  • This product has a benefit in relation to moving home in the future that is explained below
  
  
• Switching immediately to Finance Ireland's 15-year fixed rate (4.48% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €29,720 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 15 years on a fixed rate
  • This product has a benefit in relation to moving home in the future that is explained below
  
  
• Switching immediately to Finance Ireland's 20-year fixed rate (4.58% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €31,260 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 20 years on a fixed rate
  • This product has a benefit in relation to moving home in the future that is explained below

The above Avant rates include their rate increases of 15 August 2022. While Avant's rates are not the lowest at present, it is possible that they will be amongst the lowest in the near future when other lenders increase their rates. (That is not a major consideration if you decide to re-fix with Permanent TSB, since re-fixing with your current lender is usually quick to do.)

These savings estimates use for comparison the scenario of switching to a 3% rate with Permanent TSB when the current fixed rate ends. And that's assuming that Permanent TSB are even offering a 3% rate in September 2024 – it could be higher (or lower). You would continue to get the Permanent TSB monthly cashback in such a scenario. The estimates also account for any fees (solicitors' fees, valuation fee) that you have to pay and any cashback offered by the above lenders.

You should call Permanent TSB and tell them that you have started the process of switching to another lender. Ask them what interest rates they will offer you to break and re-fix with them. Please post a summary of their response here.

All of Avant's rates, and Finance Ireland's 10-year and longer fixed rates, allow you to avoid any potential break fee if you move home in the future (as long as you take out a new mortgage with them, and subject to certain conditions). And in the case of Finance Ireland you can "take your mortgage with you" – meaning that you get to keep the same interest rate when you move (provided that at least 3 years have passed since you started the Finance Ireland fixed rate and subject to certain other conditions).

Bear in mind that interest rates are very likely to rise between now and the time that you complete any switch to another lender, so if you are thinking of switching you should apply simultaneously to two or more lenders for approval in principle (AIP).

Even though it is usually quick to re-fix with your current lender, it is still possible for rates to rise while you are in the middle of the process, which could potentially leave you worse off than if you had done nothing. Ask Permanent TSB if they will guarantee today's rates for you if you start the process of re-fixing with them.



Based on some posts here:

• Haven are extremely slow
• AIB seem to take about three to four months
• Avant are apparently faster than they used to be and now take about two to three months
• Re-fixing with Permanent TSB should be very fast (because they are your current lender)

If you are thinking of switching to another lender, make sure that you first read this list of reasons why you might not be able to switch.

@Paul F thanks very much, Paul.

I've already had the conversation with PTSB as to whether they can do any better than 3% given I can move with a penalty (something more in line with their new business rates) - but they weren't for budging on that. I can see why they would maintain that line - they're happy to potentially lose some business if it means not opening the floodgates.

I have a letter from PTSB confirming zero break fee and also the range of fixed rates open to existing customers. That remains valid for 30 days and I'm on about day 9 of that. With the likely delays that will be incurred moving to a new lender and the fact that interest rates are very likely to rise within that time period, I think the best option for me, all things considered, is to go with PTSB's 3% fixed for 7 years. I would like to have done better, but I think at this point there's a real risk that I might end up with no good options if I don't act now. Thanks very much for your input which is much appreciated.

 

[Sir Bob Paisley]

@Paul F , this is Trojan work you’re doing here. You deserve a knighthood like me. Well done and thank you

 

[Paul F]

I know we don't have crystal balls - but what is the likelihood for interest rate with main banks in a the coming years ?
i know some mortgage rates were raised this week
are we headed for 4-5 (possibly more) being normal for fixed rates? are the days of 2-3 coming to an end?

No idea. But bear in mind that interest rates of recent years have been extremely low by historical standards.

is it too late to think about trying to go for one of those 2.x rates with avant?

One option you could consider is to re-fix immediately with Bank of Ireland and also start the process of switching to another lender – applying to more than one at the same time.

If you decide to go this route, there are a couple of risks:

• You might become liable for brokers' fees and/or solicitors' fees if you abandon the switch after you have engaged their services (which you might want to do if rates increase too much). Check with some brokers and solicitors if you would be liable for fees in such a situation.
• If you re-fix with BOI now there might be a break fee when you finally leave BOI. You could come back here periodically during the switching process and ask for an updated estimate of your break fee (or contact BOI to get the break fee quote). You could abandon the switch if the break fee is getting too high.

 

[Paul F]

• Current lender: BOI
• Outstanding mortgage balance (how much you still owe) [About €167,700]
• Approximate value of your property €390k
• The date you started your fixed-rate mortgage (month and year): June 2019
• How many years you fixed for: 5
• Your current mortgage interest rate: 3.2%
• Your current monthly repayment (excluding any overpayments): €833
• Your property's BER (Building Energy Rating) – estimated if necessary: C2
• Are you due to get extra cashback from your current lender in the future: No

@Colm G Your break fee should be zero at the moment – but confirm it with Bank of Ireland. If it is higher than zero, please post it here when you receive it, including the date of the letter.

• Switching immediately to Permanent TSB's 4-year fixed rate (2.05% with 2% monthly cashback) will save you about €5,620 over the next 4 years
  • Note that Permanent TSB discriminate between new and existing customers, i.e., their best rates are not available to existing customers
  • For example, if you were an existing Permanent TSB customer right now, the best rate you would be able to switch to today is 3.0%
  • So if you switch to them now, you will not be eligible to switch to one of their low rates in the future and you will end up on a higher interest rate. When that happens, you may want to switch again to another lender, which will incur costs (and it might be impossible to switch if your financial situation has deteriorated).
  
  
• Switching immediately to AIB's 5-year fixed rate (2.35% with €2,000 cashback) will save you about €5,300 over the next 4 years
  
  
• Switching immediately to Haven's 7-year fixed rate (2.65% with €2,000 cashback) will save you about €3,360 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 7 years on a fixed rate
  • Warning: it takes a long time to complete a switch to Haven, in the experience of some users of this site
  
  
• Switching immediately to Haven's 10-year fixed rate (2.85% with €2,000 cashback) will save you about €2,080 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 10 years on a fixed rate
  • Warning: it takes a long time to complete a switch to Haven, in the experience of some users of this site
  
  
• Switching immediately to AIB's 7-year fixed rate (2.95% with €2,000 cashback) will save you about €1,440 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 7 years on a fixed rate
  
  
• Switching immediately to Bank of Ireland's 5-year fixed rate (3.0% with no cashback) will save you about €560 over the next 4 years. And it is very simple and quick to do (no bank statements, salary cert or solicitor, etc., needed).
  
  
• Switching immediately to AIB's 10-year fixed rate (3.1% with €2,000 cashback) will save you about €460 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 10 years on a fixed rate
  
  
• Switching immediately to Bank of Ireland's 10-year fixed rate (3.3% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €1,520 over the next 4 years – but with the longer security of 10 years on a fixed rate. And it is very simple and quick to do (no bank statements, salary cert or solicitor, etc., needed).
  
  
• Switching immediately to Finance Ireland's 10-year fixed rate (4.45% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €10,360 over the next 4 years
  • This product has a benefit in relation to moving home in the future that is explained below
  
  
• Switching immediately to Finance Ireland's 15-year fixed rate (4.48% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €10,560 over the next 4 years
  • This product has a benefit in relation to moving home in the future that is explained below
  
  
• Switching immediately to Finance Ireland's 20-year fixed rate (4.58% with no cashback) will leave you worse off by about €11,220 over the next 4 years
  • This product has a benefit in relation to moving home in the future that is explained below

These savings estimates use for comparison the scenario of switching to a 3% rate with Bank of Ireland when the current fixed rate ends. And that's assuming that Bank of Ireland are even offering a 3% rate in June 2024 – it could be higher (or lower). The estimates also account for any fees (solicitors' fees, valuation fee) that you have to pay and any cashback offered by the above lenders.

Finance Ireland's 10-year and longer fixed rates allow you to avoid any potential break fee if you move home in the future (as long as you take out a new mortgage with them, and subject to certain conditions). And you can "take your mortgage with you" – meaning that you get to keep the same interest rate when you move (provided that at least 3 years have passed since you started the Finance Ireland fixed rate and subject to certain other conditions).

The estimates also assume that your loan-to-value ratio (LTV) really is below 50% so that you are eligible for the listed AIB rates. Your LTV estimate is 167.7k/390.0k = 43.0%. If you get a valuation of less than €336k and you want to get one of these AIB rates, you will need to make a few more monthly mortgage payments and/or a lump sum overpayment to get the LTV below 50%. But that is not a reason to delay the switch – i.e., you can start the switch immediately.

Bear in mind that interest rates are very likely to rise between now and the time that you complete any switch to another lender, so if you are thinking of switching you should apply simultaneously to two or more lenders for approval in principle (AIP).

Even though it is usually quick to re-fix with your current lender, it is still possible for rates to rise while you are in the middle of the process, which could potentially leave you worse off than if you had done nothing. Ask Bank of Ireland if they will guarantee today's rates for you if you start the process of re-fixing with them.

If you use a broker and they tell you that your mortgage balance is too low to switch, find another broker.

I have not included rates for Avant because you previously said that they would not take you.