Mortgage Life assurance policy switch without permission - Help

I am helping a friend to find out some information around his mortgage protection and sickness cover. He took out a mortgage in 2003 that included life assurance (mortgage protection) and sickness cover, two years later, his policies were cancelled (not by my mate), and he was provided a new single policy with a different company than the original underwriter (presumably by his bank when his original assuance policy was cancelled). The new policy matched (it seems) the assurance part of his original cover, but with no sickness. When I read the replacement policy from 2005 it looks like both assurance and sickness covers were included, becasue the policy mentions sickness and life assurance, but it seems there is only one policy. There is an insurance type swap clause called a 'conversion option' in the policy, but I am not able to get my head around that past a basic understanding that I could be getting wrong.

My mate did not cancel the original policy, and while he draws a blank at why he didn't spot the direct debit changes and differently named company taking direct debits, he is adamant he never cancelled the original policy. He said he'd an agument with his insurance underwriter's customer service in 2005, and all he can come up with is that they have cancelled his policy, and his bank have initiated a new replacement policy to cover his mortgage, but it's just a guess, and I've told him guessing is a bad idea. What's the best way to get to the bottom of this? I think it's easy (but unwise) to presume foul play on behalf of the insurance underwriter's customer service, but it's not impossible. The impact of the change in insurance from2003 to 2005 is that it negatively impacts my mate, and we need help to get this resolved. My mate feels betrayed by the whole situation, and it's only after many months of chats that he's asked for my help with proactively seeking help. The roadblock he percieves, that prevents him from starting to find out what's gone wrong, is the potential cost of hiring a solicitor or whomever to find out what happened.

I am careful what to say here, and I've ommited the names of the bank, original underwriter, new underwriter, and broker. We do desperately need help, and ALL advice is appreciated. I am happy to share more details if I am asked, but maybe in a private message. Thanks in advance for any answers recieved.

Flam90 said:

two years later, his policies were cancelled (not by my mate), and he was provided a new single policy with a different company than the original underwriter (presumably by his bank when his original assuance policy was cancelled).

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What documentation do they have in relation to this? What does it say?

Flam90 said:

The impact of the change in insurance from2003 to 2005 is that it negatively impacts my mate

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How exactly?

Ask for copies of the cancellation instruction for original policy and copy application forms for new ones.

The story doesn't make much sense to be honest, a bank/insurance company isn't going to get a new mortgage protection policy issued without an application form of some sort.

What are you calling sickness cover? Mortgage repayment protector that usually covered accident/illness/redundancy or something similar that was included in the actual mortgage protection/life cover bit? Or do you mean critical illness cover added to the life cover aspect of the original policy?

Flam90 said:

There is an insurance type swap clause called a 'conversion option' in the policy, but I am not able to get my head around that past a basic understanding that I could be getting wrong.

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Maybe this relates to convertible term life insurance where there is the option to continue the policy after the lifetime of the related mortgage as a standalone life insurance policy with maybe not having to do a medical etc.? E.g.:

Sorry for not being clear, but I don't work in the insurance industry, so the info I have provided is as best as I understand it. When he purchased the mortgage the mortgage was arrnegd via a broker, financed by a bank and there was mortgage protection, and it was for the full value of the mortgage and was called Life Cover. He had a Specified Illness cover on the same policy.

ClubMan said:

What documentation do they have in relation to this? What does it say?

How exactly?

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It seems he's got less cover that he originally had, but we're not sure. He has the old and new policy documents, and a copy of each policies terms, but we're both unsure who to turn to becaue my mate is financially incapable of paying for legal services. Thanks for replying and please be patient with the answers. as there is some kind of new member messge reply restriction in place.

Flam90 said:

It seems he's got less cover that he originally had, but we're not sure.

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But how and to what extent is he out of pocket for example?

Flam90 said:

He has the old and new policy documents, and a copy of each policies terms,

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Any letters relating to the alleged switching from one policy to the other? If not then that's the first place to start - find out exactly what happened, who, and on foot if what instructions from whom.

Flam90 said:

but we're both unsure who to turn to becaue my mate is financially incapable of paying for legal services.

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I don't see why he would need a solicitor. Certainly if he feels that he has some sort of legitimate complaint then his first port of call should be the individuals/companies already involved and, after that (and after receiving a final response letter from the relevant party), the ombudsman if necessary.

Flam90 said:

Thanks for replying and please be patient with the answers. as there is some kind of new member messge reply restriction in place.

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How do the old and new policies compare? Are they actually the same or is there a glaring change to terms/benefits?

Was it simply one company being taken over by another and new documents issued maybe? Although in that case they should cover the same thing.

Sounds like it was mortgage protection policy with critical/serious illness cover added, often in the same policy but can be two separate policies if done that way originally.

Pointless going to a solicitor at this stage, you need to be much clearer on what has happened, pity the Citizens Information offices are not still using volunteers, you'd surely find someone in one of them who was previously in similar industry to throw an eye over it! Friends with any insurance brokers maybe who might have a look?

Monbretia said:

Ask for copies of the cancellation instruction for original policy and copy application forms for new ones.

The story doesn't make much sense to be honest, a bank/insurance company isn't going to get a new mortgage protection policy issued without an application form of some sort.

What are you calling sickness cover? Mortgage repayment protector that usually covered accident/illness/redundancy or something similar that was included in the actual mortgage protection/life cover bit? Or do you mean critical illness cover added to the life cover aspect of the original policy?

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Hi Mongrietia. Thanks for your reply. We've asked for and received a copy of hte cancellation letter from the original underwriter. I didn't think to ask for a copy of the application from the second (replacement) policy provider. So thanks for that. In the end I want to be able to provide what we gather to soembody who'll explain what has happened and hopefully help rectify any error. My mate expeects he should have cover where he doesn't.

I'm still struggling to understand the nub of his complaint. Is it that he has possibly missed out on "sickness" cover ever since the changes in policy?

Was there a difference in price between the original policy and the new one?

Critical/serious illness cover can be expensive, maybe he decided to scrap it for a cheaper premium!

More to the point did he sign the original cancellation letter?

Flam90 said:

Hi Mongrietia. Thanks for your reply. We've asked for and received a copy of hte cancellation letter from the original underwriter.

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I think that's your starting point - now you know who authorised the cancellation - ask them on whose instruction they acted, or why they cancelled the policy - also inquire were they the ones that set up the new policy - is so, why the change in benefits - again on whose instruction they did act?

Monbretia said:

How do the old and new policies compare? Are they actually the same or is there a glaring change to terms/benefits?

Was it simply one company being taken over by another and new documents issued maybe? Although in that case they should cover the same thing.

Sounds like it was mortgage protection policy with critical/serious illness cover added, often in the same policy but can be two separate policies if done that way originally.

Pointless going to a solicitor at this stage, you need to be much clearer on what has happened, pity the Citizens Information offices are not still using volunteers, you'd surely find someone in one of them who was previously in similar industry to throw an eye over it! Friends with any insurance brokers maybe who might have a look?

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There is a difference in the ld and new policy cover, but we're not 100% sure how to interpret the wording, it's worded in such a way that it could men a few things. There are (it seems) differences to the terms and benefits, and we've been provded a set of two different policy documents. One with the original policy, and the second when we requested a copy of the polcy T&C's recently. They are two very different documents. No friends with Insurance brokers, but I'd be grateful if ANYBODY can advise who we might be able to speak to, profession, or actual person.

ClubMan said:

Maybe this relates to convertible term life insurance where there is the option to continue the policy after the lifetime of the related mortgage as a standalone life insurance policy with maybe not having to do a medical etc.? E.g.:

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I am not sure about this Clubman, but I understand your explanation. Thank you for making the effort to reply, and thanks for your patience with my being not fantastic at this stuff. I am getting confused by how this site works and I've tried to reply, but get errors. I understand why I am getting those errors now, but there also seems to be a posting bug where if you try to reply, and then refresh the page, it kind of replies? I'm not sure. I'm not trying to do a work around, just trying to respectfully reply in a short timeframe, two hours feels unreasonable, shockingly poor really.

Flam90 said:

There is a difference in the ld and new policy cover, but we're not 100% sure how to interpret the wording, it's worded in such a way that it could men a few things. There are (it seems) differences to the terms and benefits, and we've been provded a set of two different policy documents. One with the original policy, and the second when we requested a copy of the polcy T&C's recently. They are two very different documents. No friends with Insurance brokers, but I'd be grateful if ANYBODY can advise who we might be able to speak to, profession, or actual person.

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It's all still very unclear as far as I can see and you're not addressing pertinent questions such as what documentation there is about the policy change, what he signed at the time, what exactly happened, etc. So it's difficult to offer useful feedback other that what's already been posted.

Flam90 said:

I am getting confused by how this site works and I've tried to reply, but get errors. I understand why I am getting those errors now, but there also seems to be a posting bug where if you try to reply, and then refresh the page, it kind of replies? I'm not sure. I'm not trying to do a work around, just trying to respectfully reply in a short timeframe, two hours feels unreasonable, shockingly poor really.

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If you are having problems with the site itself then you need to post here with a clear description of the steps needed to reproduce the problem, exactly what error messages you get, what doesn't work as expected, etc.
What you describe above is unclear but doesn't sound like any common problem that people have with the site.

What is the premium on the new policy and what was the old one?

What are the sums assured on the new policy and what was on the old one?

Who signed the cancellation letter?

Bank Manager said:

I think that's your starting point - now you know who authorised the cancellation - ask them on whose instruction they acted, or why they cancelled the policy - also inquire were they the ones that set up the new policy - is so, why the change in benefits - again on whose instruction they did act?

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Ok, thanks for those pointers. I will definietly include them in the questions to the replacement underwriters.

Monbretia said:

Was there a difference in price between the original policy and the new one?

Critical/serious illness cover can be expensive, maybe he decided to scrap it for a cheaper premium!

More to the point did he sign the original cancellation letter?

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Yes there was a difference in the prices. He did not scrap the insurance, he never cancelled it. he did have an argument with his underwriter because he missed a premium payment. There is a signature on the original cancellation letter that he says is not his.

Flam90 said:

he did have an argument with his underwriter because he missed a premium payment.

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This is new information and could be relevant. A big problem here is that only partial information is being provided in dribs and drabs.

Flam90 said:

There is a signature on the original cancellation letter that he says is not his.

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You were asked about such letters but never clarified what exactly they said.

If you want assistance then you really need to help others to help you/your friend...

ClubMan said:

This is new information and could be relevant. A big problem here is that only partial information is being provided in dribs and drabs.

You were asked about such letters but never clarified what exactly they said.

If you want assistance then you really need to help others to help you/your friend...

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Hi Clubman.

Firstly, thanks for your ongoing efforts to help.

I am sorry you feel the information being provided is in dribs and drabs, that's not deliberate. I am simply communicating the information I think is relevant until I am asked for it. I've been mindful not to write long essays that include my opinion on what's going on because it'd probably be unfair to evrybody given opinions don't always capture the truth or accurate information, so I've tried, as best as possible, to stick to providing short accurate factual answers. If there are any questions you'd like me to answer, please feel free to ask them, and I will do my best to answer them.

With regards to leaving out that he'd an argument with (as he described it) a snooty and abusive call centre support staff, it's the drama around what's happened, and I felt what was important was what's actually happened, why it's happened is kind of a matter of opinion, and saying "they did this after an agrument" is kind of pushing people into a space where I am trying to convince them that we are the good guys and the underwriters are the bad guys, I don't think that's helpful. It's not for me to decide if what's happened has been done in bad faith. So I've tried to stay away from accusations of foul play, like when my mate siad he didn't sign the letter, and he's adamant about that.

What 'exactly' are 'such letters'? if you could please be more accurate about what you're speaking to, I'd be happy to elaborate where I can, if I can, and if I can't I'll explain why.

I appreciate that if we need help, we'll need to be co-operative, and I am doing my best to be that. I feel the best way to encourage good help is to not provide long essay like answers, and I decided it was more respectful to people offering help to provide facts, and to keep commentary concise. I am sorry you feel you're been kept in the dark. If you've any questions or you'd like a deeper explanation on something specific, I'd be happy to provide it, if I can.

Flam90 said:

What 'exactly' are 'such letters'? if you could please be more accurate about what you're speaking to, I'd be happy to elaborate where I can, if I can, and if I can't I'll explain why

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ClubMan said:

What documentation do they have in relation to this? What does it say?

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Monbretia said:

Ask for copies of the cancellation instruction for original policy and copy application forms for new ones.

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ClubMan said:

Any letters relating to the alleged switching from one policy to the other? If not then that's the first place to start - find out exactly what happened, who, and on foot if what instructions from whom.

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Monbretia said:

More to the point did he sign the original cancellation letter?

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To provide a proper answer I'll need to understand the context of your last post. You've copied some previous messages, bt I am not sure why you've done this. So, on your what documentation question, I am not 100% sure what 'this' you are referring to here. As Monbrieta advised I have requested additional information and thatnked Monbrieta for that direction, and I wouldn't have thought to ask. I feel your 'Any Letters' comment is covered by Monbrieta's advice, but it's still valuable because it confirms it's good advice, and I have requested those documents, and I am still waiting on them. They have provided a cancellation letter, but he is saying he did not sign or send a cancellation letter. I hope to get additional information (today) from the second/replacement underwriter, and I will have better information and answers to some of everybody's questions. I will post as soon as he gets an email or post. Thank to everybody for their help with this so far. We are very grateful.