This is an interesting one. Let's see what the Insolvency Service of Ireland says in their PDF:
https://www.isi.gov.ie/en/ISI/PIA_July_2016.pdf/Files/PIA_July_2016.pdf
On Page 10 they say that "Annual service charges to owner’s management companies" are an "Excludable Debt". And there is an asterisk to the bottom of the page where it says:
" *Creditor consent to include debt may be requested in which case it becomes a permitted debt. If no response is received the creditor will be deemed to have consented."
So Grant Thornton appear to be saying that the Management Company was written to, failed to respond, and by not doing so are deemed to have consented to the management fees being included in the PIA.
So far so good. But how do you get the Management Company to update it's records? Under GDPR, information must be kept accurate, and at the moment, it's not. So it might be possible to use GDPR protections in an effort to get the Management Company to write
Thanks for this advice.For what it's worth, Google "How to make a complaint against a PIP" to find the ISI's guide. Unfortunately, I can't find the page with the link to this document.
The draft PIA had the management company as a creditor that was to be included in the PIA. They were issued a dividend. I’m livid at this now 2 years later I’m only finding it outYou can only do one PIA in your lifetime. It should have been made clear to you, in fact you need to approve the proposal before it's sent.
Make a complaint under their procedure or to regulator.
Without knowing your circumstances it would be hard to give much insight.
I can tell you verbatim they are issued a dividend in the PIA.If they opted out they wouldn't be even in a draft or shouldn't be more correctly
Well then it's a significant issue as you thought you were signing up to something that it wasn'tI can tell you verbatim they are issued a dividend in the PIA.
100% all along they said the management company made no contact. I can tell you if somebody has said to me that the management fees were not going to be in my PIA I wouldn’t have gone through with it because that time it was €20,000...Well then it's a significant issue as you thought you were signing up to something that it wasn't
I am waiting for my file from Grant Thornton under a GDPR request. I will have to pursue this further because I was sold a pup. Thanks for your adviceIf I was in your shoes I would make a formal complaint in writing to the PIP setting out my argument and asking them to negotiate some sort of settlement - e.g. they cover some or all of the outstanding management fees due. I would try to set out my issue/argument/complaint/expectations as simply and concisely as possible.
If that goes nowhere then I would read up and follow the ISI PIP complaints process that I mentioned earlier.
Yesterday evening a member of Grant Thornton called me to say that the management company had opted out of the PIA. This is the first time I have got that information. My creditors meeting was in July 2019. Grant Thornton had always told me that there was no communication from the management company. The management company debt was included in my PIA. I will have a better picture when I receive my file under a GDPR request. This is absolutely shambolicUnfortunately we can't help you as you don't have full picture. They either opted out or they didn't.
If Mgmt co did nothing they are in after 21 days of receipt of the PIPs section 98 letter.
You are going to need to raise complaint with the PIP and/or regulator and send your own GDPR request to Mgmt co looking for your data and communications with your PIP over this issue
Yes that basically sums it up. Except I’ve tried for a year on and off to get clarification from Grant Thornton as the management company kept sending me statements with the balance increasing...then four months ago when I read all the legislation about management fees I’ve been pursing clarification relentlessly from Grant Thornton on the status of the management company fees and finally now last night I was told they opted out of the PIASo, to summarise:
July 2019. Your PIP tells you that the management company debt is included in the PIA. You let the creditors meeting go ahead.
August 2022. (4 months ago) You start querying your PIP.
December 2022 (Yesterday) Your PIP, or somebody on their behalf, tells you that the management company, as is their right, had opted out of the PIA.
In other words, you were told one thing in 2019, and something different in 2022. And had you been fully informed in 2019 you may have chosen a different course of action.
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